Alesis BRC as DAW controler

[Tubetec]

I see a few of these going cheap locally ,
I wonder can it be used via midi in a modern context as a control surface for a DAW ,
So you have track arm buttons per channel , FF,RW ,Play ,record ,
locator , time code display and smpte in/out ,


It always was a cracking piece of hardware the BRC ,
be a shame to see them hiked into a skip .

 

[ccaudle]

Do you have any documentation of the MIDI protocol it supports?
I use Ardour as DAW, and it supports a MIDI learn feature where you put the DAW in learn mode, click the control you want to automate, then send the MIDI message you want to associate with that control. Seems like that would work if the BRC sends out a separate MIDI message for each button.

 

[emrr]

That would be cool.

I can say the BRC never played will with the later ADAT HD24, I had to abandon using it there, and any word clock synced ADAT to DAW transfers also fail to sync with a BRC connected. So.....it gathers dust.....

 

[cyrano]

Are you planning on using the Alesis BRC with ADAT recorders?

It's been a while, but I seem to remember the MIDI control is used to control ADAT recorders and can't do much more. To put it another way, it's messaging is limited to what an ADAT recorder can do.

Even if it would do what you want (control a DAW?) it's not easy as Alesis still controls what third parties can publish. The complete MIDI implementation of RME's interface, fi can't be published because of that. So there's always a lot of guess work involved.

I have a similar project on the shelf. It's not going anywhere because of lack of documentation. I'm now considering ripping out the MIDI hardware and replacing with an Arduino or something like it.

 

[Ricardus]

I would almost be happy with an LRC as a transport controller also. The BRC was a nice piece of kit.

What connector did it use to connect to the ADATs?

 

[cyrano]

DIN5, I presume?

 

[Sean Kerns]

The BRC connects to ADATs using the same 9-pin sync cable that connects the ADATs to each other.

 

[kags]

The BRC connects to ADATs using the same 9-pin sync cable that connects the ADATs to each other.

From what I remember, the ADATS would work when receiving MMC and then they would send SMPTE back to the DAW for timcode follow/lock. I don't think we ever got MMC to work the other way around, nor did it seem to be a good idea at the time. We tried at one time to get the ADATs to respond to track arm commands from our console via 9-pin, but that didn't work. The RADAR remote is very cool - maybe that could be used to control other DAWs, but not inexpensively. I've been toying with the Elgato Streamdeck +. It has assignable buttons that work as macros in any DAW (or any MAC program) plus some rotary encoders. With SoundFlow, you can even script your own macros (Java). It's not as dedicated as a BRC with would be, but under $200 and built very well.

 

[Tubetec]

Ive no interest in using Adat type machines to record ,
heres a copy of the BRC manual ,
http://www.pgtonstudio.ch/BRC_Manual.pdf
Really its more like a tape transport and autolocator I'd like to use the BRC for ,

 

[Rob Flinn]

From memory I think that the LRC used a resistance ladder with the push switches on the nodes to get different voltages to send to the ADAT, because it's connection was on a TS or TRS jack, so probably wouldn't allow for handshaking. I used to use an LRC with my Tascam MX2424 for transport control & seem to remember opening it up to see how it worked. Tascam designed the MX2424 to be compatible with the LRC.

 

[Tubetec]

The moment you start moving a mouse on the screen the audio can get glitched ,
having dedicated transport controls cuts down on much processing and screen redraw etc .

LRC has TS jack ,
Im still tempted to get a BRC for 50 euros ,just to have a mess around with it , seems like a whole lot of options in the set up menus , maybe a Smpte time code track in the daw for sync and midi for track arm etc , but then you have the meters redundant .

 

[Rob Flinn]

The moment you start moving a mouse on the screen the audio can get glitched ,
having dedicated transport controls cuts down on much processing and screen redraw etc .

LRC has TS jack ,
Im still tempted to get a BRC for 50 euros ,just to have a mess around with it , seems like a whole lot of options in the set up menus , maybe a Smpte time code track in the daw for sync and midi for track arm etc , but then you have the meters redundant .

Did you look at the ucapps.de site ? It may be possible to make your own with the functions you want if you can control every function you need via midi.

 

[Tubetec]

Thanks Rob ,Ill check that out ,

Some RME interfaces had the proper Adat control bus in addition to the optical ,
that might allow everything mesh up nicely ,

 

[Tubetec]

Some extra details of the midi in the service docs ,

 

[Tubetec]

So it seems like all the functions required to control the daw as if it were a tape machine are already there in the BRC MMC


https://www.doremidi.shop/products/...-midi-interface-midi-network-box-pro-mr-1-pro
That 90 dollar box would give RPT midi control over ethernet cable , native on MAC os ,
makes no sense to use a real MIDI connection with its foibles over distance .

I think I have at least one BRC in the bag for 60 euros ,
With the extra 90 for the Midi-network adapter ,
thats still only 140 bucks ,
And its basically a network plug and play ready control surface ,
Scene settings can be saved/reloaded via midi or 'to tape' ,

To get back to the old style studio feel with your right hand at the controls of the tape machine I'll make a dolly for it , the base of an office chair with a suitably angled platform on top is perfect .

https://messageboard.tapeop.com/viewtopic.php?t=29411
from the above link ,sounds like just what I was thinking ,


'I use it for vari-speeding protools beyond what my aardsync II will do. Just have PT chase it. Amazing. Even just for wordclock pull-up 's or downs, it can be great. totally fun. Great for vari-speeding multiple digital devices as well, because of the zillion ways to connect. Also, great as a standalone SMPTE generator, for striping 2", or even printing into a PT session along side of tracks (for various weird uses later, sync wise).'

joelhamiltonrecording.com

Studio G Brooklyn

http://www.lawless-music.com

 

[Tubetec]

On the question of sample rates above 48khz
If the BRC acts as master generator for MIDI and SMPTE control signals into the DAW
why does it need to know what the sample rate is ?

Useful article here from SOS,
https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques/smpte-mtc-midi-time-code

 

[Tubetec]

So no need for any fancy hardware, even a basic usb midi interface will get the BRC up and running.

Reaper can chase SMPTE timecode via an audio input from the BRC ,
You could 'stripe' ,as we used say in the old days but a preprepared wav file of the timecode track can easily be copy and pasted to the DAW before you start recording , equally well a project template could include a timecode track automatically .

Below from the manual , its seems possible to sync entirely independantly of sample rate , MTC or Video clock
The BRC generates its own internal SMPTE reference and it uses the off tape time code to double check , with a pristine digital source for your timecode track your laughing , its going to be rock solid , not like the old days of tape.

 

[Tubetec]

Heres a tool that allows you to create a SMPTE timecode wav , just set your parameters and it downloads convieniently as a zipped file .
LTC Two
Has 44.1 and 48khz options ,but might be sample rate converted to 88.2 or 96 khz if required ,

I'll try a loop back test with reaper tomorrow ,

heres another interesting article on related topics ,
https://www.justaphase.blog/home/2020/4/23/daw-timecode-sync

 

[Tubetec]

I struck a deal on a unit in good condition , I should be able to pick it up this afternoon ,


Ive taken a bit of time to study up on how Adat works ,
The proprietary 9 pin connector supplies a dedicated midi in/out and 48khz clock signals in both directions
The Sysex messages that the Adats internal midi uses seem to be known , documented , and can be read by any midi interface .
So in other words the BRC would need two midi connections , the standard one and the internal adat midi path ,
The daw would need to send out a sysex message , telling the BRC its connected to a fleet of 16 adat machines and recieve back the relevant handshakes and 48khz clocking signals .
Ive jumped in way over my head again ,

A deeper trawl of the internet shows a few people over the years trying to find way to get these things working with old sound interfaces with the adat sync connectivity , it worked but only allowed access to adat channels 1-8 , or as if a single Adat machine was connected .

There must be 10's of thousands of BRC controlers out there , it just seems like such a shame a fix hasnt been found .

 

[Tubetec]

I picked up a BRC ,

It passed the self test for all the leds, displays and buttons , so thats a good start ,
Its in good nick overall .
Its been a long time since I layed eyes on a BRC , maybe 30 years ,
It always had a feel of quality well beyond its price tag and it places all the traditional tape machine remote/autolocate controls just where you want them at your right hand ,

Mine is dated 1997 , one of the later units with V2.04 firmware , thats as far as it went I think .
Some earlier hardware revisions had sync problems and needed modification by service techs ,
thats all covered in the service docs ,
There was also a change in the spec of the 9 pin sync cable later on ,they increased the diameter of the conductors and used better sheilding , that helped sort out a lot of troubles people had ,


As to opperation with a HD24 ,
It supposedly does but with some caveats ,
it wont do 88.2 or 96khz mode
And some special functions relating to the ADAT tape system arent applicable to the HD24 ,
likewise some HD24 functions arent covered by the BRC .
Theres a few other minor niggles , with work arounds , but it should work .

One things for sure unless this thing see's some kind of ADAT sync the transport controls remain parked and it isnt going anwhere,
I should be able to do some more basic tests later with Reaper ,to check send/ recieve and lock to SMPTE , I dont anticipate any issues there ,

There was one guy I read online ,
He was using the HD24 as an A/D convertor , via ADAT out into the computer and also Midi from the BRC to control the DAW ,
It basically gave him the full functionality of the BRC ,

I was taking a look around at the HD24 ,
they go cheap now but only had the IDE interface ,
noisey, power hungry and slow drives .

A few seem to have successfully installed modern SATA SSD drives ,
it cuts down on power consumption from the PSU and vastly reduces the noise the machine makes , There is a cooling fan built into the HD24 and sometimes the drive caddies as well , but that might not even be nessesary with SSD drives installed ,

I see good examples of HD24's going for a few hundred ,
its a well capable machine at 24ch ,48khz , 24 bit , It can do 96khz but only via the optical with reduced track count to 12 and without the BRC being of any use .

If higher sample rates were needed , the HD24 could just as easily work away in the backround at 48khz , then you could sync Reaper to the BRC's SMPTE output and Midi .

There was a guy here a few years back made a usb based control surface for Reaper and programmed it all up himself
he took inspiration from the BRC ,
I think Abbey got the pcbs and metal work ,but I dont know what happened after that .


I was able to generate a SMPTE timecode track on the website I showed previously ,
I played that out of my audio interface , the BRC in SMPTE test mode readily locked and displayed TC which matched exactly the reading on Reaper ,
I was also able to read SMPTE from the BRC through an audio input and have Reaper chase to timecode . It all feels really rock solid .