Alesis BRC as DAW controler
- Thread starter Tubetec
- Start date
Help Support GroupDIY Audio Forum:
I know theres other idyosyncracies ,
not documented in the manual ,
The context in which the BRC manual was written was sloppy tape paths that needed pre-roll to align , giving back random wonky timecode with dropouts etc , the sync mode you use the BRC in allows it to approximate if time code is lost temporairily , with a modern digital audio path and a software generated timecode file , the SMPTE lock is flawless , everytime ,
If SMPTE lock off tape was good enough in the old days , the digital will provide orders of maginitude better performance .
Im not so worried about 44.1khz incompatibillity at this stage ,
I wouldnt use it for tracking anymore ,
I didnt have a midi interface handy to test that side of the BRC ,
But I should be able to get my hands on one today ,
RPT midi looks like a good option here , to overcome USB or Midi cable distance limits and associated power problems .
Ultimately the BRC and HD24 could run at 48khz all the time , the daw is SMPTE and MMC synched , it can run at what ever sample rate you want ,
Heres a guide to configuring MTC and MMC with Reaper on a mac ,
https://non-lethal-applications.com...se/categories/video-sync-5/daw-sync-option-18
The HD24 becomes redundancy back up in real time to 24ch/48khz outside of the computer if you want it , it also might act as a meter bridge for the DAW , so the computer screen isnt required at all during tracking .
not documented in the manual ,
The context in which the BRC manual was written was sloppy tape paths that needed pre-roll to align , giving back random wonky timecode with dropouts etc , the sync mode you use the BRC in allows it to approximate if time code is lost temporairily , with a modern digital audio path and a software generated timecode file , the SMPTE lock is flawless , everytime ,
If SMPTE lock off tape was good enough in the old days , the digital will provide orders of maginitude better performance .
Im not so worried about 44.1khz incompatibillity at this stage ,
I wouldnt use it for tracking anymore ,
I didnt have a midi interface handy to test that side of the BRC ,
But I should be able to get my hands on one today ,
RPT midi looks like a good option here , to overcome USB or Midi cable distance limits and associated power problems .
Ultimately the BRC and HD24 could run at 48khz all the time , the daw is SMPTE and MMC synched , it can run at what ever sample rate you want ,
Heres a guide to configuring MTC and MMC with Reaper on a mac ,
https://non-lethal-applications.com...se/categories/video-sync-5/daw-sync-option-18
The HD24 becomes redundancy back up in real time to 24ch/48khz outside of the computer if you want it , it also might act as a meter bridge for the DAW , so the computer screen isnt required at all during tracking .
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Its hard to get those days of timecode insychronicities out of my head ,
When the tape machine went off on a big wander and things got sloppy ,
My experience the last few days with SMPTE over audio to and from the daw , it just works
,way better than it ever did with tape .Theres no pre-roll or locate/play and sync deadtime . Even if the HD24 runs at 48 and the daw at 96 , they still come out and mix perfectly well in the analog world , theres no need to have a common work clock , in anycase we could measure any difference and compensate for it with an offset .
I note the RPT midi is reccomended for the PC in the video sync link above , Of course mac had it all in the box years ago ,
I'll know more when I get the USB midi cable hooked up to the BRC and find out how Reaper deals with the MMC commands , but it all looks like it should work, with minimal fuss .
I'm going to grab a HD24 as soon as I can ,
When the tape machine went off on a big wander and things got sloppy ,
My experience the last few days with SMPTE over audio to and from the daw , it just works
,way better than it ever did with tape .Theres no pre-roll or locate/play and sync deadtime . Even if the HD24 runs at 48 and the daw at 96 , they still come out and mix perfectly well in the analog world , theres no need to have a common work clock , in anycase we could measure any difference and compensate for it with an offset .
I note the RPT midi is reccomended for the PC in the video sync link above , Of course mac had it all in the box years ago ,
I'll know more when I get the USB midi cable hooked up to the BRC and find out how Reaper deals with the MMC commands , but it all looks like it should work, with minimal fuss .
I'm going to grab a HD24 as soon as I can ,
bluesman714
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 31, 2005
- Messages
- 74
Is SMPTE the only reason you want to control Reaper with a BRC?
Ricardus
WILL SOLDER FOR FOOD
A little unrelated, but I have a friend who just bought a BRC to use with a single ADAT, to do transfers to his DAW. Most of these transfers will be from multiple tape projects, so he will have to do more than one pass.
ADATs when locked up have sample accurate lockup, but when you're using SMPTE to a DAW, which will be as stable of a lockup as you can get (compared to chasing an analog machine), I wonder how well the tracks will line up compared to the normal sample-accurate lockups.
For example, if you spanned 2 machines with a stereo pair how bad is the comb filtering going to be, etc...
ADATs when locked up have sample accurate lockup, but when you're using SMPTE to a DAW, which will be as stable of a lockup as you can get (compared to chasing an analog machine), I wonder how well the tracks will line up compared to the normal sample-accurate lockups.
For example, if you spanned 2 machines with a stereo pair how bad is the comb filtering going to be, etc...
Out of morbid curiosity I just picked up a Mackie Ultra Pilot controller from Shop Goodwill for about $30 (which included shipping)...I say MORBID because this thing has been dead for 20 years probably...
Its just the controller which has long throw faders all connected to a logic chip and going into a RJ45 ethernet connector...
The original Ultrapilot 34 used about 32 THAT 2181 VAC's in it and a really low end 8 bit AD converter to basically create "flying faders" that could not fly since they were all non-motorized...I think it ran on Windows 95...
I MIGHT try to put together a VCA controlled "patch channel" to put between my Fostex B16 tape machine and my Biamp Legend...although its probably more work than worth...the THAT VCA2181 design looks relatively easy and I was thinking about trying to incorporate some kind of Arduino controller for the digital side of things...no need to do what Mackie was doing by going into an 8 bit AD converter...just control the CD405xB inside it with digital logic...
This is simply the controller and all the chips are really standard stuff with good data sheets.
I dunno...it is MORBID though since I can do everything I'm thinking about ITB and through the DAW...you never know though...I've been slowly recreating a standard project studio from the 90's...to complement all the state of the art digital crap I have.
(By the way, its almost like this Biamp Legend and the Fostex B16 were made for each other, the Biamp is a true INLINE console...you can send tape/mic channels to all other busses/channels as well as switching monitor paths its the most flexible console I've seen in this footprint (20/16)...the only thing it is truly missing is decent EQ...its just 3 band fixed high shelf, 1.2 Q mid and low shelf...
If there was room to modify it without reinventing each channel I would...)
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Ive struck a deal on a HD24 ,
Its not only SMPTE timecode lock ,but also midi control of the DAW I want the BRC to do ,
I not sure the exact working scenarios yet , but the HD24 might be used for the band tracking stages initially ,then moving over to the pc for the overdubs ,
Or the HD24 might just slave to timecode and purely be there to make the BRC functional , or as a realtime back up .
I dont plan on trying to span tracks(from a single take) across both HD24 and DAW and expect it to work sample perfect , again I dont know how accurate things will be until I try it , If there was some kind of delay it might be possible to compensate for it afterwards , either in the daw or on the HD24 .
Its not only SMPTE timecode lock ,but also midi control of the DAW I want the BRC to do ,
I not sure the exact working scenarios yet , but the HD24 might be used for the band tracking stages initially ,then moving over to the pc for the overdubs ,
Or the HD24 might just slave to timecode and purely be there to make the BRC functional , or as a realtime back up .
I dont plan on trying to span tracks(from a single take) across both HD24 and DAW and expect it to work sample perfect , again I dont know how accurate things will be until I try it , If there was some kind of delay it might be possible to compensate for it afterwards , either in the daw or on the HD24 .
My mainstay for the last 20 years has been the Akai DPS24 ,
I like the machine a lot , but I want to go back to a proper analog mixdown again ,
The clunky old IDE 80 gb drives that the machine was shipped with are a problem , likewise with the HD24 ,
A few people have managed to upgrade the HD24 to Sata type drives , either via the original Alesis Sata caddie or by a third party vendor who produced a Sata to IDE adapter board designed to work with the Alesis . A few have got modern SSD drives to work with various adapter boards , but many more had limited success trying to do it ,
One interesting thing might be the use of an SSHD , most likely a modern 2.5 inch laptop style drive would be faster and very much quieter than the old 3.5 inch IDE .
available quite cheaply now in 1 or 2 tb .
I never tracked music with Windows , I still cant think of a reason Id want to do it , over the use of a dedicated machine , based on computer hardware , with its own dedicated controls ,
Adat HD24 does all that , as good as it was ever done ,
Will be the weekend before I get my hands on the HD24 ,
I like the machine a lot , but I want to go back to a proper analog mixdown again ,
The clunky old IDE 80 gb drives that the machine was shipped with are a problem , likewise with the HD24 ,
A few people have managed to upgrade the HD24 to Sata type drives , either via the original Alesis Sata caddie or by a third party vendor who produced a Sata to IDE adapter board designed to work with the Alesis . A few have got modern SSD drives to work with various adapter boards , but many more had limited success trying to do it ,
One interesting thing might be the use of an SSHD , most likely a modern 2.5 inch laptop style drive would be faster and very much quieter than the old 3.5 inch IDE .
available quite cheaply now in 1 or 2 tb .
I never tracked music with Windows , I still cant think of a reason Id want to do it , over the use of a dedicated machine , based on computer hardware , with its own dedicated controls ,
Adat HD24 does all that , as good as it was ever done ,
Will be the weekend before I get my hands on the HD24 ,
Looks like its easy to program Reaper to respond to a set of midi commands ,
Theres a learn feature which shows you the incoming midi message , then you associate it with a particular function within Reaper, its as easy as that .
In the case of the BRC its only a handful of simple push button functions are needed ,
Another tool called Realearn allows much more comprehensive control set ups , with faders ,encoders and led indicators , with many parameters to adjust to suit your needs .
https://www.helgoboss.org/projects/realearn/
Theres a learn feature which shows you the incoming midi message , then you associate it with a particular function within Reaper, its as easy as that .
In the case of the BRC its only a handful of simple push button functions are needed ,
Another tool called Realearn allows much more comprehensive control set ups , with faders ,encoders and led indicators , with many parameters to adjust to suit your needs .
https://www.helgoboss.org/projects/realearn/
The HD24 originally had a software called FST connect which worked with the fireport adapter to allow files be transfered to pc , that came to an end with Win XP ,
Fortunately a third party came up with a new program capable of transfering files from a HD24 FST formatted drive without depending on the Alesis fireport and it works with modern Os's
https://ringbreak.dnd.utwente.nl/~mrjb/hd24tools/index.html
Fortunately a third party came up with a new program capable of transfering files from a HD24 FST formatted drive without depending on the Alesis fireport and it works with modern Os's
https://ringbreak.dnd.utwente.nl/~mrjb/hd24tools/index.html
