and in other news, the grammys

[pucho812]

impeachment got you down? impeachment dominating the media? well look no further, looks like the academy who does the Grammys is in a bit of hot water.

what a sordid affair. Some of it, we all knew such as how awards are nominated and given, but none of that  was disclosed to the general public. Some of it  we wondering what is true and what is not true.    Any takes on what the fall out will be if any?

the academy has responded, what is your take here?

 

[fazer]

Guess I live a sheltered life.  What happened?  I googled but nothing came up.  Do you have a link?

 

[pucho812]

Guess I live a sheltered life.  What happened?  I googled but nothing came up.  Do you have a link?

what? no way... nothing? o.k. I'll paraphrase the argument then link you to some news stories.
2018  Neil Portnow head of Grammys has to step down for comments made. He was asked why there are few women participating with what was 11 out of 88 winners female.  He basically said that they need to bring their a game if they want a grammy. IN the wake of me too and wanting diversity he caused a storm with that sentiment and he had to step down. 

his replacement was Debroah Dugan.  She started right after him. In November of 2019,  a complaint was filed with their HR department against her.  in return she filed a complaint against the Grammys with their HR.  She went on to file a complaint with  the eeoc( Equal Employment Opportunity Commission). 
She was placed on administrative leave 10 days before the  Grammys.
Her complaints are the Grammys are an old white boy network and that ultimately there are improprities with how the Grammys are named and voted on,  that the former head sexually assaulted an artist and that she her self was subject to sexual harassment. the last one occurred at a grammy event and in her word a lawyer within the organization  approached her saying she was attractive and tried to kiss her.  she turned him down and there has not been any further details of the last incident. Which if it is as she says, sounds more like she got hit on and didn't like it.
She offered to leave quietly,  for a lump sum of 22 million pay out which did not happen.  Since her leave she has been in the news and on morning t.v. telling her side of the story.  today the academy issued a response to her claims.

despite the title, this did a good summery
https://www.vulture.com/2020/01/grammys-deborah-dugan-scandal-explainer.html

 

[JohnRoberts]

the cancel culture will ultimately end up eating itself...

I am about half way through reading "the madness of crowds" (Murray). He addresses where a lot of this is coming from,  with no obvious remedy in sight (yet).

Hopefully this will burn itself out, but the social justice warriors seem to be gaining power not losing it...  Waiting for common sense to spontaneously erupt seems like wishful thinking, but I can always wish.

good luck to us all.

JR

 

[pucho812]

I agree.

if you look at the demographics that make up professional audio and the music business,  the industry is mostly male.  it's also an industry that for the most part does not care  about gender, creeds, or colors when working together. It's always been  us folks who can look at someone based on how they play, what they play and not who they are, what they are.    however in the age of woke there must be reasons beyond the obvious.  excuses and crying foul does not push people to strive to be better.  while I do get her concerns and complaints  I don't know how many are really valid  beyond the how the voting process works. To think that the members promote  projects they worked on is not new. the politics to winning a grammy are not new. the public just finding out might be shocked but those of us in the trenches, we knew. 
So far with all that has come out, I find it most interesting that she offered to go away quietly for a lump sum of money, 22 million.  I also find the timing of everything interesting, 10 days before the big show when it all started back in November.  As always whenever something like this comes out,  one wonders what is being left out, what is the real story. In the end this has little impact to most of us and the academy will survive the hit. 

 

[JohnRoberts]

who gives a flying F about an awards show created to sell more records?

Perhaps big local news in socal but not big in Hickory....

JR

PS: I agree with your sense that the pro music business is more of a meritocracy, but the social justice warriors are un-relentless searching out unequal outcomes to rant about.... What is more merit based than sales?

 

[pucho812]

who gives a flying F about an awards show created to sell more records?

Perhaps big local news in socal but not big in Hickory....

JR

PS: I agree with your sense that the pro music business is more of a meritocracy, but the social justice warriors are un-relentless searching out unequal outcomes to rant about.... What is more merit based than sales?

John as always you are delight. 

 

[midwayfair]

however in the age of woke there must be reasons beyond the obvious.

What's the extremely obvious?

 

[pucho812]

What's the extremely obvious?

numbers. in an industry where there is a huge number of males vs females, it only stands to reason that at this point more awards go to males  based on numbers.  even with  a metic based playing field which basically is as equal as it can be, the fact of more male participants then females stands to put males in favor of winning then females unless it is a specific award that excludes males such as female artist of the year or whatever... I am not even sure I named a real category but you get the idea.

 

[fazer]

I have not paid a lot of attention to this but see the revolving CEO problems and such.  I changed to Post production for a good 15 years and worked on some great music on the side during that time:  Now I’m retired from post and the world changed as it always does.  For all the people directly affected by these things, it seems to be the new normal or same as it ever was.    I heard Todd Rundgren make a similar statement about the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame .    It’s 360 deals and complete Murch deals that are the way it is for the labels.  Todd is what 70,  He comes from a time when as he said the music stands on it’s own.  Still whoever makes money is usually the one that gets to make another album or tour again.  Lots of drama in the drama business.

 

[ruffrecords]

Looking a little broader it seems to me this is symptomatic of the few big industry players who control/own most of the market (in $ terms). Then there is the phenomenal number of small players from bands to small independent labels who maybe scratch a living from the crumbs left over (I am excluding all those who play.record/gig just for fun).

It seems to me that the really big question is how the small players can fight back. There are many, many places to plug your music on the net and you can even get it listed on iTunes etc for free but there are so many people doing this you just get lost in the noise.

So is there an answer? In the old days here in the UK you used to send your record to John Peel at the BBC and many great bands owe their success to him. But he is no longer with us. Jools Holland does something similar in a much smaller way. He introduced Adele, KT Tunstall and Sea Sick Steve and many others to the UK public for example.

Thoughts?

Cheers

Ian

 

[dbelousov]

This is an extreme business and creative professions are "the winner takes it all". Nothing changes except for decorations, the show is the same. Nassim Taleb summarised it well.

It's hard to be a creative type. You have to create or you get sick, frustrated and miserable. You have to create even if you can't make living out of it. Jordan Peterson summarised it well.

 

[fazer]

It was ladies night for me.  Billie Eilish ,  Demi Lovato, Alisa Keys and Tanya Tucker. We’re my favorite performances.  I missed the first hour though.  Billie Eilish is only 18?  Amazing!  Demi was also very special I thought. 

 

[ruffrecords]

This is an extreme business and creative professions are "the winner takes it all". Nothing changes except for decorations, the show is the same. Nassim Taleb summarised it well.

Yes, but the problem is with who chooses the winners. That is what needs to be addressed,

Cheers

ian

 

[dbelousov]

Awards boost sales. If an award doesn't boost sales it can be independent and relatively fair (since the arts are subjective) but nobody gives a damn about this award.  And if an award is prestigious and popular there is always be an army of managers and accountants, who are glad to corrupt it and use it as a marketing tool. It's a Catch 22 situation.

And even such a good idea as an award based on sales is vague. Who knows the real numbers, especially in our time of streaming and sharing.

 

[pucho812]

someone needs to explain billie eyelash to me. I just don't get it. I don't get why it is so celebrated, I don't get why people think it is so good.  case of too old? I don;'t  know, maybe. But I don't get it and worse what I do get it "how can you not like this. what is wrong with you. Someone mad they didn't get a grammy" couldn't be further from the truth.  I do know her whole back story which is not exactly what the represented to the public.

https://www.getrevue.co/profile/pennyfractions/issues/penny-fractions-billie-eilish-the-exception-that-proves-the-rule-205262

best engineered album? for what? I didn't get that one.  have we  set the bar low to be inclusive? is this the kind of rigged that Debrah Dugan was talking about?  All in all seemed very lack luster then years past.  Then again should I be surprised coming from the academy that never gave a grammy to the beach boys outside of some lifetime achievement thing?

 

[fazer]

I don’t follow the artist that win.  I just heard the performances and am aware of the tracks people play to .  Eilish looked and sounded like she was singing not lip sync.  Maybe I’m wrong .  The performance (vocal) was sung great .  That said she sounded flawless so maybe she is great at lip sync.  Anyway Demi was moving to me and fragile.  I was impressed.  The thing is 20 years ago I would have bought the album and today I won’t even bother streaming.  What’s that say?  Says the record companies could care less what I think.  I live a sheltered life these days. 

 

[pucho812]

I don’t follow the artist that win.  I just heard the performances and am aware of the tracks people play to .  Eilish looked and sounded like she was singing not lip sync.  Maybe I’m wrong .  The performance (vocal) was sung great .  That said she sounded flawless so maybe she is great at lip sync.  Anyway Demi was moving to me and fragile.  I was impressed.  The thing is 20 years ago I would have bought the album and today I won’t even bother streaming.  What’s that say?  Says the record companies could care less what I think.  I live a sheltered life these days.

fcc, performances have to be lip synced in case they drop one of those 7 words you can't say... that aside, I don't get billie, I thought Demi was good.

 

[dbelousov]

My clients told me about here as "a bedroom prodigy". I listened to it. I watched it. It just screamed at me "professional management" and "professional production".  But a fairytale is so seductive and the truth is so boring that people prefer a fairytale. I know that many people thought that the Internet era would stop this kind of myths about artists, but look at flat-earthers

She is a good singer, though.