Any textbook recommendations to get up to speed with logic circuits?

[sircletus]

Putting together a summer reading list, and would like to start thinking about digital control of analog circuits.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Logic hardware seems like tragically archaic technology... these days logic circuitry can be remapped on the fly (inside gate arrays), and soft programming skills for massive computing devices seems more useful (opinion).

That said there is lots of information in old data sheets, you just need to know how to read truth tables. (we need more "truth tables" in life).

I'm sure there is a wealth of basic info at wiki...

JR

 

[mike-wsm]

Way back in time we used to have visiting reps who would bring the latest books of datasheets. CMOS logic started out as a very thin book which grew and grew. By reading all the data sheets and application notes you soon learnt about all the possible devices. I would recommend looking at this link and downloading the datasheet for each device in turn. Look carefully at the internal device circuits and the applications. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_4000_series_integrated_circuits

 

[Ethan]

Have you taken a look at the recommended reading list: https://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=08785

Most of the basic electronics books listed there cover some logic (so will formal logic philosophy texts ).
I came across a book some years ago called, "Bebop to boolean boogie".
Odd title, but I thought it did a really good job explaining fundamentals, with an emphasis on digital concepts.

about digital control of analog circuits.

If this is the main goal, as John alluded to above, getting into programming and learning about embedded development might be the way to go. Pick up an Arduino or Raspberry Pi an start pulling your hair out.  ;D

 

[JohnRoberts]

Way back in time we used to have visiting reps who would bring the latest books of datasheets. CMOS logic started out as a very thin book which grew and grew. By reading all the data sheets and application notes you soon learnt about all the possible devices. I would recommend looking at this link and downloading the datasheet for each device in turn. Look carefully at the internal device circuits and the applications. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_4000_series_integrated_circuits

+1 back in the day I used tons of 4000 series CMOS logic for various glue circuits.

I finally got around to throwing away my decades old,  dog eared RCA data manuals a few years ago.

JR

 

[sahib]

Embedded control obviously makes the life vastly easier but there are times it can be a bit like cracking a walnut with a sledge hammer.

I suggest Digital Electronics Fundamentals and Applications by Roger Tokheim.  Also look for the Experiments Manual. Older prints go very cheap on e-bay. Great, practical, entry level book without getting too bogged down in theory.

CMOS Cookbook by Don Lancaster is also a great practical book. (While you are at it grab a copy of his Active Filter Cookbook too.)

 

[ruairioflaherty]

I have zero skills with logic or embedded but I can second Cemal's recommendation of the Active Filter Cookbook, it really helped me when I was trying to understand some EQ topologies.

 

[Gene Pink]

Along these lines, this story has nothing to do with anything. Maybe a little

When my daughter was about 8 years old, she would get off the bus after school, and then blast through her homework so she could play that really fun "Boolean Monster game" with dad. I would hand draw a logic gate schematic connected up in some useless fashion.

In this game, the binary logic was yes/no. Inputs listened, outputs talked to the next monster secretly through pipes, drawn as lines. The monsters had their own silly names, a simple inverting NOT gate was the "Liar Monster", if you tell it yes, it would say no, tell it no, it would say yes, it always lied. Truth tables were provided, and the various monsters always followed their truth table. (not like real life)

It was amazing how quickly a young mind can pick up on this sort of thing, it wasn't long before she didn't need to look at the truth tables, we were upwards of a dozen gates, and she's catching my mistakes. Eventually, it was no longer challenging to her, and she lost interest.

Jump ahead several years to her rebellious early teens. I have something digital on the workbench with a schematic, she comes in the room, spots the schematic spread out on the bench and says "The boolean monster game?!"  Figuring out that the game was actually educational, really pissed her off.

In her mind, she had been duped.

Damn kids these days....

Gene

 

[hitchhiker]

Well Gene,  you know she is now surely wary of schematics!  But you  , she will always Love.  Cheers, Lance

 

[JohnRoberts]

Along these lines, this story has nothing to do with anything. Maybe a little

When my daughter was about 8 years old, she would get off the bus after school, and then blast through her homework so she could play that really fun "Boolean Monster game" with dad. I would hand draw a logic gate schematic connected up in some useless fashion.

In this game, the binary logic was yes/no. Inputs listened, outputs talked to the next monster secretly through pipes, drawn as lines. The monsters had their own silly names, a simple inverting NOT gate was the "Liar Monster", if you tell it yes, it would say no, tell it no, it would say yes, it always lied. Truth tables were provided, and the various monsters always followed their truth table. (not like real life)

It was amazing how quickly a young mind can pick up on this sort of thing, it wasn't long before she didn't need to look at the truth tables, we were upwards of a dozen gates, and she's catching my mistakes. Eventually, it was no longer challenging to her, and she lost interest.

Jump ahead several years to her rebellious early teens. I have something digital on the workbench with a schematic, she comes in the room, spots the schematic spread out on the bench and says "The boolean monster game?!"  Figuring out that the game was actually educational, really pissed her off.

In her mind, she had been duped.

she was..  ;D

Damn kids these days....

Gene

I hope you didn't stop there...

JR

 

[PRR]

> CMOS Cookbook by Don Lancaster

Collect the set. Read in order, then backward.

RTL Cookbook by Don Lancaster  www.tinaja.com/ebooks/rtlcb.pdf

TTL Cookbook by Don Lancaster

CMOS clearly assumes you have digested TTL, which in turn assumes you know his RTL book. Since the three books were published a few years apart and appeared in ALL radio-parts shops, this was a good assumption, back then.

 

[madswitcher]

From a constructional point of view, if you can find a copy, the old Texas TTL cookbook/data book (the one with the orange/yellow cover) was a mine of information, particularly about good logic design and layout/decoupling/ clocking etc. and how to avoid situations like logic races, skew etc.  which the pure software approach may have problems with. 

AMD also did a good set of books based on the their 2900 4-bit slices, that takes you from the basics through to a microprogrammed processor.  I used their chipset quite a lot years ago, when we had to build machines from scratch, but the principles will still be relevant.

To get up to speed on the various logic families and functionality it would probably be beneficial to have a search around the various manufacturers web sites and also some of the basic logic design theory is probably on-line and free from the distance learning sites.

If you want to learn the programming side of logic, have a look around Linda.com - they are brilliant for on-line learning across a very wide range of subjects.

Kind regards

Mike

 

[Andy Peters]

Putting together a summer reading list, and would like to start thinking about digital control of analog circuits.

"The Art of Electronics" by Horowitz and Hill has a fine chapter on old-school discrete/MSI logic (74-series TTL and 4000-series CMOS).

But for digital control of analog stuff, you want to be into microcontrollers. Things like digital pots, TI and THAT's digitally-controlled mic preamp, TI's programmable volume control, and analog switch and mux chips use variations on SPI (serial peripheral interface) and all modern microcontrollers have at least one SPI port. Silicon Labs 8051s are great and cheap. 

 

[sircletus]

Wonderful suggestions, all.  Much appreciated!

I'll definitely check out the Lancaster books, among others.  I already have the AFC, and I like how he writes.  Completely forgot about Horowitz and Hill.  I think I still have a REALLY beat up copy around here somewhere.

I do have Arduino experience, and does seem like a bit of overkill for the types of things I have in mind.  I would like to learn about FPGAs, though.

I love the logic monster game, btw. Gene Pink!

 

[Gene Pink]

I hope you didn't stop there...

Nope. The next year at 9, she got the same lesson I got from my dad at 9, Arc Welding 101.

Her first dozen welds on shelf brackets to clip into e-track in a semi trailer, I secretly redid. But the next 50 or so are still holding up stuff like 150 lb Ballantine tube power supplies from the '50's. None has failed. BTW, she'll be 28 in a couple weeks, and wears an engagement ring. Uh-oh, grandkids? I can deal with that, I have plenty of duct tape.

Enough topic veer.

Apologies,
Gene

 

[JohnRoberts]

Nope. The next year at 9, she got the same lesson I got from my dad at 9, Arc Welding 101.

Her first dozen welds on shelf brackets to clip into e-track in a semi trailer, I secretly redid. But the next 50 or so are still holding up stuff like 150 lb Ballantine tube power supplies from the '50's. None has failed. BTW, she'll be 28 in a couple weeks, and wears an engagement ring. Uh-oh, grandkids? I can deal with that, I have plenty of duct tape.

Enough topic veer.

Apologies,
Gene

Sounds like a lucky young lady.... 

JR

 

[Andy Peters]

I would like to learn about FPGAs, though.

For this application, FPGAs (my day job) are complete overkill.  That said, if you have a lot of digitally-controlled thingies, you could use a small cheap FPGA to implement pretty much as many SPI ports as you like, and they can be controlled from one micro. We do this a lot. The micro needs an External Memory Interface (EMIF in the Silicon Labs and other vendor worlds), and you basically put the SPI ports in the FPGA in particular locations in the microcontroller's memory map.

There are things called Systems On a Chip, which put an ARM processor and FPGA logic in the same die, or at least in the same package. This has a lot of obvious advantage. The problem is that these chips tend to be huge, overkill for your needs.

 

[sircletus]

For this application, FPGAs (my day job) are complete overkill.  That said, if you have a lot of digitally-controlled thingies, you could use a small cheap FPGA to implement pretty much as many SPI ports as you like, and they can be controlled from one micro. We do this a lot. The micro needs an External Memory Interface (EMIF in the Silicon Labs and other vendor worlds), and you basically put the SPI ports in the FPGA in particular locations in the microcontroller's memory map.

There are things called Systems On a Chip, which put an ARM processor and FPGA logic in the same die, or at least in the same package. This has a lot of obvious advantage. The problem is that these chips tend to be huge, overkill for your needs.

Oh, I'm sure they're overkill, but I still find them interesting!

 

[JohnRoberts]

Oh, I'm sure they're overkill, but I still find them interesting!

Sometimes overkill is just right...  8)

Sounds like a useful skill set.

JR

 

[mjrippe]

Sounds like a lucky young lady.... 

JR

Heck, sounds like a lucky young man who found her!