API Vintage Console Channel For 500/51x Format VC528 ST2+
- Thread starter jsteiger
- Start date
Help Support GroupDIY Audio Forum:
I am half way thru the test-build on the 2nd Rev of PCB. I started with only the 2nd stage. This was the original concept behind the VC528 ST2. The "+" version was the addition of the discrete, balanced receiver stage.
I currently have 2 resistors and 1 cap under the PCB, just around the relay PCB. I may do another Rev just to get them on top. I will have to see once I complete the receiver section and test.
Proper knobs and inserts are here. Hmmmm.......earthtones... 8)
Cheers, Jeff
I currently have 2 resistors and 1 cap under the PCB, just around the relay PCB. I may do another Rev just to get them on top. I will have to see once I complete the receiver section and test.
Proper knobs and inserts are here. Hmmmm.......earthtones... 8)
Cheers, Jeff
Those look great!
haima
Well-known member
Looks fantastic as always Jeff! i wish i could retrofit these into my console (a heavily modified yamaha PM2000).
One question, and this is very much a personal taste thing - but do you find there is significant enough difference between "off" "12hz" and "20hz" settings on the HPF? Not having heard the module and it's particular curves it's hard to say, but i would have thought you could do away with one of these settings and gain a newer higher frequency option - like 240hz or 320hz...?
Anyway - I love filters! They can really clean up a mix.
Great job!
Haima
One question, and this is very much a personal taste thing - but do you find there is significant enough difference between "off" "12hz" and "20hz" settings on the HPF? Not having heard the module and it's particular curves it's hard to say, but i would have thought you could do away with one of these settings and gain a newer higher frequency option - like 240hz or 320hz...?
Anyway - I love filters! They can really clean up a mix.
Great job!
Haima
Hi Haima,haima said:
Thanks for the kind words. I am always trying to make my stuff look unique. Maybe even a little old at the same time.
Yes you do hear a dif especially on a track with a lot of low end energy. The 2 lowest settings were chosen really just to tidy up the bottom and gain some important headroom. I would have to comb back thru my emails but one of my friends was really after a filter with some nice, low settings. IIRC, my initial HPF choices were ranging from 20Hz to 360Hz. After some back and forth emails, I went with something under 20 for mastering guys and because of how useful the Great River HP at 17 is. I just wanted to get a little lower without to many goofy cap situations. When at the -12dB setting, the 3dB down point is higher up than 12Hz. I plan on publishing some sweeps when I get some free time.
One thing I am finding really cool is how different combo's of opamps can really change things. So far, my favorite is a gar1731 in the receiver stage and a red dot in the 2nd stage.
8)Cheers, Jeff
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yeah Jeff is right about those low filters. I am doing a mix right now with the GR eq on the master buss. What a great EQ! Anyway, I have the 17hz in and you can clearly hear that. It really tightens up the kick and bass. So I know we will be able to hear the 20hz from these filters.
The 12hz will maybe be something we can hear, not sure. It will help clean up the bottom and will increase headroom. It will probably be more audible with the -12db slope because of the bump right above the 12hz from the filter. Someone here who is much smarter would have more details on why that is. I personally will probably always record with the 12hz on if not higher for the headroom. The gentle 6db slope will make these very useful on a number of things. The -12 will be more of a cut but still by no means radical. I have a feeling these little gems will be useful and full of wonderful mojo!
The 12hz will maybe be something we can hear, not sure. It will help clean up the bottom and will increase headroom. It will probably be more audible with the -12db slope because of the bump right above the 12hz from the filter. Someone here who is much smarter would have more details on why that is. I personally will probably always record with the 12hz on if not higher for the headroom. The gentle 6db slope will make these very useful on a number of things. The -12 will be more of a cut but still by no means radical. I have a feeling these little gems will be useful and full of wonderful mojo!
haima
Well-known member
Sounds good!
17Hz will definitely be useful - especially for wide bandwidth stuff, full mixes, etc...
17Hz will definitely be useful - especially for wide bandwidth stuff, full mixes, etc...
soapfoot
Well-known member
Great! Now since we're in API mode, how about you go to work on a clone of the old Aengus thumbwheel graphic EQ. I'm waiting for someone to clone those bad boys.
I'm waiting for someone to clone those bad boys.haima
Well-known member
that looks really sweet jeff!!
I now have in my lucky little hands a pair of the "Missing Links". I got a pair of the first protos for some testing and I wanted to give you all some feed back. I took them to Scott Liebers studio. I tested at his place because I needed 4 red dots for the pair and he wanted to hear them as well. I have also done a lot of mixing out of his studio so I am more familiar with it now then my new space that I am working on (baby on the way so things are changing). There we use a small Neve console from the 70's (highly modded), aurora converters and DynAudio passive monitors with this super clear and beefy power supply for them. It a great listening environment.
We set up a small drum kit to test them on a sub mix of the drums. Very basic, no eq or compression just the mic's, pres and the mixer and then the subgroup with and with out the Missing Link on the group. The 528's made the kit sound a good 20% better for sure with just putting them in the subgroup. No flter's engaged. I personally liked them in with just the HPF in on either 12 or 20hz. It was amazing how it made the kick and snare jump out and more forward in a good way. Its the kind of thing that I would work to get with a number of other pieces of gear for an hour or more. Not anymore!
Then we tracked a DI bass into a great river pre straight into the 528. That was a huge difference. It made the bass sound super legit. 12Hz filter in and the 9k LPF. When I pulled the 528 out of the signal the bass sounded dull and lifeless...boring. For that alone these are no brainers. I know these are hard things to explain but once you try them you will get it.
Then we set up a quick little electric guitar rig. (Scott is a great guitar player and luthier) It was the same thing, it made the guitar jump out more and also the filters helped to just fit the track in where I would want it right away. Its this kind of stuff that I think I am the most excited about. They will help me get my finished sound so much faster and easier. I think they will help me be a better producer. It will be less imagining of what the track will sound like once it has a better mix. This will help with part writing and help artist who don't have as much experience in the studio hear what it will sound like faster. Less for them to imagine.
I told Scott that I will probably over use these. But honestly I am not sure if you really can over use them, time will tell. I think it will be the same thing I found when I switched from the API modern op amps and to Scotts Red Dots. The track stack up so much better together and the overall vibe of the mixes are more musical. I haven't felt this way about a piece of gear in years. These are something that if you track stereo anything you need 2 of at least. But if you do mostly 1 track at a time for a simple Singer songwriter / Home studio stuff one would do, unless you want to use them on the mix buss!
The other thing I thought about during the test was that I normally always eq and compress to some degree because I have a number of great out board flavors. I normally use them to do just what these do naturally, tone and color. So I think if I was just starting out and had a few good pres these would be the first thing I would buy if looking for color or eq's at all. The filters will do most of the heavy lifting for tracking and you could use ITB for the rest once time for mixing comes or if you are like me, and you want color on a track but don't need compression or need it on a different track these will free up your other gear to do what it is designed for.
I think the name "Missing Link" really is the fitting.
We set up a small drum kit to test them on a sub mix of the drums. Very basic, no eq or compression just the mic's, pres and the mixer and then the subgroup with and with out the Missing Link on the group. The 528's made the kit sound a good 20% better for sure with just putting them in the subgroup. No flter's engaged. I personally liked them in with just the HPF in on either 12 or 20hz. It was amazing how it made the kick and snare jump out and more forward in a good way. Its the kind of thing that I would work to get with a number of other pieces of gear for an hour or more. Not anymore!
Then we tracked a DI bass into a great river pre straight into the 528. That was a huge difference. It made the bass sound super legit. 12Hz filter in and the 9k LPF. When I pulled the 528 out of the signal the bass sounded dull and lifeless...boring. For that alone these are no brainers. I know these are hard things to explain but once you try them you will get it.
Then we set up a quick little electric guitar rig. (Scott is a great guitar player and luthier) It was the same thing, it made the guitar jump out more and also the filters helped to just fit the track in where I would want it right away. Its this kind of stuff that I think I am the most excited about. They will help me get my finished sound so much faster and easier. I think they will help me be a better producer. It will be less imagining of what the track will sound like once it has a better mix. This will help with part writing and help artist who don't have as much experience in the studio hear what it will sound like faster. Less for them to imagine.
I told Scott that I will probably over use these. But honestly I am not sure if you really can over use them, time will tell. I think it will be the same thing I found when I switched from the API modern op amps and to Scotts Red Dots. The track stack up so much better together and the overall vibe of the mixes are more musical. I haven't felt this way about a piece of gear in years. These are something that if you track stereo anything you need 2 of at least. But if you do mostly 1 track at a time for a simple Singer songwriter / Home studio stuff one would do, unless you want to use them on the mix buss!
The other thing I thought about during the test was that I normally always eq and compress to some degree because I have a number of great out board flavors. I normally use them to do just what these do naturally, tone and color. So I think if I was just starting out and had a few good pres these would be the first thing I would buy if looking for color or eq's at all. The filters will do most of the heavy lifting for tracking and you could use ITB for the rest once time for mixing comes or if you are like me, and you want color on a track but don't need compression or need it on a different track these will free up your other gear to do what it is designed for.
I think the name "Missing Link" really is the fitting.
haima
Well-known member
nice write up dan - thanks for going to the trouble!
Yes, thanks for taking the time Dan. I knew you would be head over heels for them.
Now, can you imagine an entire console full of those guys? That's a vintage API...like heaven for audio!
Now, can you imagine an entire console full of those guys? That's a vintage API...like heaven for audio!
Marcocet
Well-known member
You know, they crippled the bus returns on my 1608 by not putting a fader on them. 8 of these in a rack would bring back the functionality. Genius. I can't wait to build a few!
-marc alan
-marc alan
TEST 2 (i posted this on GS as well, I figured I would let them in on the goods as well)
Ok, I took the Missing Link to another friends studio today to run it through the paces with him and see if i was over reacting to my intial thoughts. The long and short of it was no way... this thing is killer!
My friend owns a pro studio here in Minneapolis and was working on a mix for an artist. So we decide to just use it as an insert for some of the tracks he was currently working with. First we start with the vocal since I haven't tested it on vocals. We ran the vocal through and did a little HPFing and then printed it. We then compared the sound of it to the unprocessed sound. The processed track was nice, a little warmer and a little smoother. Kind of like the smoothness you get from tape but not really that at all. But it was smoother, not compressed just smoother. Hard to explain but it was better. Honestly the vocal is where it was the least amount better, but it was noticeably better.
Then we ran the upright bass through it. Wow, again this thing kills on bass. I found that my same setting I used on my other bass test worked great on bass in general. It really made the important tone of the bass come out and got rid of the stuff that is not as important. My friend described it the same way I did when I first heard it on bass. He described his old bass track as lifeless and the missing link adds a bunch of life to the bass. Pretty freaking amazing.
The next thing we tested was this room mic he had going as the glue for the whole mix. It had all sorts of good stuff in it. Drums, upright bass and bleed from all sorts of other stuff. The track was a really cool vibe track already and was being leaned on heavily in his mix. After processing that track his whole mix cleared up. The Missing Link filtered out some of the junk and added life and energy to this complex track in a very vibey way. That one track alone made a huge difference to his mix.
Overall I know I will need 2 more of them at least. Which means I need another rack. Urgh.
Ok, I took the Missing Link to another friends studio today to run it through the paces with him and see if i was over reacting to my intial thoughts. The long and short of it was no way... this thing is killer!
My friend owns a pro studio here in Minneapolis and was working on a mix for an artist. So we decide to just use it as an insert for some of the tracks he was currently working with. First we start with the vocal since I haven't tested it on vocals. We ran the vocal through and did a little HPFing and then printed it. We then compared the sound of it to the unprocessed sound. The processed track was nice, a little warmer and a little smoother. Kind of like the smoothness you get from tape but not really that at all. But it was smoother, not compressed just smoother. Hard to explain but it was better. Honestly the vocal is where it was the least amount better, but it was noticeably better.
Then we ran the upright bass through it. Wow, again this thing kills on bass. I found that my same setting I used on my other bass test worked great on bass in general. It really made the important tone of the bass come out and got rid of the stuff that is not as important. My friend described it the same way I did when I first heard it on bass. He described his old bass track as lifeless and the missing link adds a bunch of life to the bass. Pretty freaking amazing.
The next thing we tested was this room mic he had going as the glue for the whole mix. It had all sorts of good stuff in it. Drums, upright bass and bleed from all sorts of other stuff. The track was a really cool vibe track already and was being leaned on heavily in his mix. After processing that track his whole mix cleared up. The Missing Link filtered out some of the junk and added life and energy to this complex track in a very vibey way. That one track alone made a huge difference to his mix.
Overall I know I will need 2 more of them at least. Which means I need another rack. Urgh.
haima
Well-known member
Thanks for the report Dan. It's great to have people posting "sound" reports and samples more often these days - after all... that's the point of all this stuff!
Jeff - have you considered doing a small run of front panels with just the filters? that way people could leave off the expensive elma etc - for those of us who just want the filters? Just an idea.
Either way - another great module from Classic API. A real "classic"!
Jeff - have you considered doing a small run of front panels with just the filters? that way people could leave off the expensive elma etc - for those of us who just want the filters? Just an idea.
Either way - another great module from Classic API. A real "classic"!
