Audio Grade resistors?

[analag]

https://www.prpinc.com/pr9372-series

Anybody tried these.

 

[Rusan]

I used quite a few of 'em in both building and modding years ago, and still have several on hand. I don't know if it was just placebo effect, but in my A/B listening tests I preferred them to my go-to fave choices of Vishay/Dale CF/RN series and the old, non-magnetic construction Holco metal films.

I went shopping online for some 1/4 watts to use in a microphone several months ago, but the price tag downright hurt my feelings, and I cheaped out and used the Vishay/Dales instead.

 

[analag]

The moment it falls into the realm of audiophoolery the price will be extraordinary

 

[13engrsapper]

https://www.prpinc.com/pr9372-series

Anybody tried these.

I do not know what pricing is like, but I have seen much more impressively spec'd resistive products.

 

[thelivingroom]

https://www.prpinc.com/pr9372-series

Anybody tried these.

I used them just about everywhere in the D-LA2A I finished recently, as well as the gain switch and a few other spots in my Orange 86. I wanted to try them because I was looking to deviate from ordering the same ole stuff, they are made in the U.S., and I thought the red would look nice haha. The other enticement was that I could order them from Sonic Craft in Texas, which is only one state over from me. Whichever values I couldn’t get from there I got from HiFi Collective when I ordered some caps. I haven’t had any issues, and it was quick to match pairs. Do they sound any better than if I would’ve used Yageo/KOA/TE? I have no idea.

 

[pucho812]

What makes a resistor or any component audio grade? Is it really just sales terms to overcharge you?

 

[totoxraymond]

"For high resolution sound clarity in signal processing"

"Flat frequency response, low distortion"

This looks like audiophoolery to me. Wtf does "high resolution sound clarity" means?

Any modern metal film resistor should be transparent in the audio band, if it's not, it's either defective or a design issue.
I just buy the cheapest 1% i can't find from a reputable seller. Usually, it's Yageo brand and never could find an issue due to a resistor. Unless i made a bad solder joint.

 

[Rusan]

There's plenty of nonsense marketing hype going on, for sure. However, I once decided to see for myself if there were actual subjective differences between various passive componentry, and my conclusion was that there definitely is. My test rig was a simple, two stage SET amplifier with no NFB loops, either local or global, with Fostex single driver loudspeakers in an acoustically treated listening room. The simplicity means nothing is obscured; it all comes screaming through, the good, the bad and the ugly, warts and all. I set it up with A/B switches, and spent a lot of time listening using the same reference recordings with each componentry change. The differences were most often very subtle, but nevertheless most definitely there.

The Holco metal films I mentioned in my earlier post are a good example. They were clean, neutral, detailed and transparent, and I could hear no difference between them and Vishay/Dale RN series. However, I once modified some gear with new ones I'd just gotten, and when I did a test listen I immediately heard that something was wrong. By "immediately," I mean in the first 5 seconds. It sounded gritty, harsh and edgy, somewhat like like a lot of early-era CD players.

After making sure all the component values were correct, everything was connected properly, voltages were correct, running it on the o'scope with a signal, etc, I found nothing wrong. So, I started backtracking, and to my surprise it was the new resistors. Holsworthy had changed the construction of the same part number resistor from non-magnetic to steel leads and endcaps, and I figure probably something else as well. I switched them to Vishay/Dale, and the sonic issues went away.

Copper foil paper in oil caps in the direct signal path of a simple tube amplifier sound quite different from an orange drop, and metal film sounds different than carbon composition. I discovered that vintage carbon comp resistors even sounded different from new production Xicon. Do note, these sonic differences are subtle, and I was using circuitry and conditions that 99.999% of people will never be using. Plus, if you enclose these different componentries inside a NFB loop (even in a very simple tube preamp or power amp), the differences all but disappear. If you do not have very high resolution speakers and an excellent sonic environment in which to listen, the differences all but disappear.

Through my experimentation, I learned that while the sonic differences do certainly exist, they're small. And, by no means will what mega-expensive audiophool componentry subjectively sounds best to YOUR own ears compensate for poor design. You can put a new coat of paint on a rusted-out, beaten up, worn out junk car with the best paint made, but it's still a junk car. Same thing here.

Also, because the differences are generally very subtle, the law of diminishing returns applies en force. That insanely expensive wondercap that costs 5000% more will only get you another 2% of sonic performance. It's up to the individual and their wallet if the improvement at their ears is actually worth it or not. Myself, you'll see that in my above post I wanted the PRP resistors for my microphone project, but decided that maybe a 2% improvement wasn't worth it for just an "everyday" mic that'll never see critical professional use. To each his own.

 

[ruffrecords]

Of course, those subtle sonic differences might have nothing to do with the "quality" of the resistors, but merely the slight change in operating conditions of the output tube which will contribute by far the most "tone".

Cheers

Ian

 

[moamps]

There's plenty of nonsense marketing hype going on, for sure. ......

Thanks for the detailed post, my opinion is almost identical, I like the sound of PRP resistors in some of my devices.
I used to get them from https://partsconnexion.com/

 

[JohnRoberts]

There's plenty of nonsense marketing hype going on, for sure. However, I once decided to see for myself if there were actual subjective differences between various passive componentry, and my conclusion was that there definitely is. My test rig was a simple, two stage SET amplifier with no NFB loops, either local or global, with Fostex single driver loudspeakers in an acoustically treated listening room. The simplicity means nothing is obscured; it all comes screaming through, the good, the bad and the ugly, warts and all. I set it up with A/B switches, and spent a lot of time listening using the same reference recordings with each componentry change. The differences were most often very subtle, but nevertheless most definitely there.

The Holco metal films I mentioned in my earlier post are a good example. They were clean, neutral, detailed and transparent, and I could hear no difference between them and Vishay/Dale RN series. However, I once modified some gear with new ones I'd just gotten, and when I did a test listen I immediately heard that something was wrong. By "immediately," I mean in the first 5 seconds. It sounded gritty, harsh and edgy, somewhat like like a lot of early-era CD players.

After making sure all the component values were correct, everything was connected properly, voltages were correct, running it on the o'scope with a signal, etc, I found nothing wrong. So, I started backtracking, and to my surprise it was the new resistors. Holsworthy had changed the construction of the same part number resistor from non-magnetic to steel leads and endcaps, and I figure probably something else as well. I switched them to Vishay/Dale, and the sonic issues went away.

Copper foil paper in oil caps in the direct signal path of a simple tube amplifier sound quite different from an orange drop, and metal film sounds different than carbon composition. I discovered that vintage carbon comp resistors even sounded different from new production Xicon. Do note, these sonic differences are subtle, and I was using circuitry and conditions that 99.999% of people will never be using. Plus, if you enclose these different componentries inside a NFB loop (even in a very simple tube preamp or power amp), the differences all but disappear. If you do not have very high resolution speakers and an excellent sonic environment in which to listen, the differences all but disappear.

Through my experimentation, I learned that while the sonic differences do certainly exist, they're small. And, by no means will what mega-expensive audiophool componentry subjectively sounds best to YOUR own ears compensate for poor design. You can put a new coat of paint on a rusted-out, beaten up, worn out junk car with the best paint made, but it's still a junk car. Same thing here.

Also, because the differences are generally very subtle, the law of diminishing returns applies en force. That insanely expensive wondercap that costs 5000% more will only get you another 2% of sonic performance. It's up to the individual and their wallet if the improvement at their ears is actually worth it or not. Myself, you'll see that in my above post I wanted the PRP resistors for my microphone project, but decided that maybe a 2% improvement wasn't worth it for just an "everyday" mic that'll never see critical professional use. To each his own.

The difficulty in uncontrolled listening tests is that other variables can cause audible differences. A slight difference in a passive component's resistance or capacitance could result in audible frequency response difference in many circuits.

Of course there are real empirical differences between passive components and the data sheets are generally populated with such data that we can compare.

Last but not least there is expectation bias. I used to include gold plated phono jacks in my last phono preamp kit. Not because it made a difference but because it looked to my customers like it should. Expensive parts are expected to sound better. They should but do not always.

JR

 

[pucho812]

There's plenty of nonsense marketing hype going on, for sure. However, I once decided to see for myself if there were actual subjective differences between various passive componentry, and my conclusion was that there definitely is. My test rig was a simple, two stage SET amplifier with no NFB loops, either local or global, with Fostex single driver loudspeakers in an acoustically treated listening room. The simplicity means nothing is obscured; it all comes screaming through, the good, the bad and the ugly, warts and all. I set it up with A/B switches, and spent a lot of time listening using the same reference recordings with each componentry change. The differences were most often very subtle, but nevertheless most definitely there.

The Holco metal films I mentioned in my earlier post are a good example. They were clean, neutral, detailed and transparent, and I could hear no difference between them and Vishay/Dale RN series. However, I once modified some gear with new ones I'd just gotten, and when I did a test listen I immediately heard that something was wrong. By "immediately," I mean in the first 5 seconds. It sounded gritty, harsh and edgy, somewhat like like a lot of early-era CD players.

After making sure all the component values were correct, everything was connected properly, voltages were correct, running it on the o'scope with a signal, etc, I found nothing wrong. So, I started backtracking, and to my surprise it was the new resistors. Holsworthy had changed the construction of the same part number resistor from non-magnetic to steel leads and endcaps, and I figure probably something else as well. I switched them to Vishay/Dale, and the sonic issues went away.

Copper foil paper in oil caps in the direct signal path of a simple tube amplifier sound quite different from an orange drop, and metal film sounds different than carbon composition. I discovered that vintage carbon comp resistors even sounded different from new production Xicon. Do note, these sonic differences are subtle, and I was using circuitry and conditions that 99.999% of people will never be using. Plus, if you enclose these different componentries inside a NFB loop (even in a very simple tube preamp or power amp), the differences all but disappear. If you do not have very high resolution speakers and an excellent sonic environment in which to listen, the differences all but disappear.

Through my experimentation, I learned that while the sonic differences do certainly exist, they're small. And, by no means will what mega-expensive audiophool componentry subjectively sounds best to YOUR own ears compensate for poor design. You can put a new coat of paint on a rusted-out, beaten up, worn out junk car with the best paint made, but it's still a junk car. Same thing here.

Also, because the differences are generally very subtle, the law of diminishing returns applies en force. That insanely expensive wondercap that costs 5000% more will only get you another 2% of sonic performance. It's up to the individual and their wallet if the improvement at their ears is actually worth it or not. Myself, you'll see that in my above post I wanted the PRP resistors for my microphone project, but decided that maybe a 2% improvement wasn't worth it for just an "everyday" mic that'll never see critical professional use. To each his own.

I liked holco resistors because they had the value printed on them VS reading the color codes.
That's about the extent of it. otherwise I am good with Yageo and that ilk. Never had an issue using either of the two.

 

[Gold]

https://www.proaudiodesignforum.com/forum/php/viewtopic.php?t=1265

Look at the second to last post.

 

[scott2000]

 

[Rusan]

The difficulty in uncontrolled listening tests is that other variables can cause audible differences. A slight difference in a passive component's resistance or capacitance could result in audible frequency response difference in many circuits.

Exactly my thought as well, in that one of the factors that should be addressed in any A/B testing is to eliminate as many variables as possible. I always purchased multiples of the "test mule" components and selected ones of identical value, even for non-critical positions such as grid stoppers, where voltage/current operating point parameters aren't affected.

https://www.proaudiodesignforum.com/forum/php/viewtopic.php?t=1265

Look at the second to last post.

Very interesting! "To each his own, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, there's no accounting for taste, only the wearer knows where the shoe pinches, different strokes for different folks, one man's trash is another man's treasure," and a thousand other sayings have been coined about personal preference. I guess the real question is "why?" Paul's link to the other forum's post might have at least partially answered that question as it presents itself here.

The much worse distortion figure of Vishay CMF versus Xicon or Yageo is an insightful example as to why certain components (especially resistors) are preferred by different people. For example, carbon composition resistors are known to create significant levels of 2nd harmonic when there is a large voltage drop across them. Hence, despite their inherently very high contact noise, many guitar amp builders exclusively use carbon comps as plate load resistors due to their "sweeter, warmer" sound. Others eschew comps in favor of metal films, not only for lower noise but because they sound "crisp."

I liked the sound of paper in oil caps in certain things, because to me they sounded "richer, warmer and more musical" than polypropylene/foil, which in those specific applications sounded "thin and somewhat lifeless and sterile." A friend of mine I sometimes listened with much preferred the poly caps, because to his ears they were "accurate, clean and fast," while my beloved paper in oils were "fat, slow and bloated."

Distortion in resistors has been thoroughly documented, but while there's plenty of documentation in the electrical characteristics of various capacitor types, I've not seen any concerning how they relate to sonic differences. Does anyone know of a reputable source on this topic, that's actually measurement-based and not hocus pocus hyperbole?

 

[JohnRoberts]

https://www.proaudiodesignforum.com/forum/php/viewtopic.php?t=1265

Look at the second to last post.

Looking at linearity down at -140dB and better is clearly down in the dirt.

I dislike uber op amps claiming linearity down in that ball park by tricking THD+N measurements at artificially elevated noise gain and extrapolating the result by simple scaling (dividing by the gain). I doubt that the input stage linearity tracks with higher impedance feedback components and lower closed loop gains.

Sorry about the veer.... Better is always better. We could see distortion caused by poor voltage coefficient in resistors when they are used in the NF path of high power audio amplifiers exposed to relatively large voltage swings.

JR

 

[deleteduser]

Yeah I dont know what yall are talking about but I can definitely hear one single ceramic cap in a circuit or one single carbon comp so I mean I believe in whatever hype there is. paul gold has an interesting point with that ULDO reference I mean in my opinion.... just use 2 watt resistors everywhere, on everything. dont even worry about 1/4W. just use way oversized resistors and be done with it? works for me.