BC184C / BC214C replacements

[Matt Syson]

Of course the original basis for Neve's transistor choice was not for 'sonics' as such but cost, reliability and the ability to produce good and repeatable measurements. A 'competitor' to Neve (30 miles down the road) favoured BC413 and BC415 as their low noise preamp stage transistors and used bucket loads of them. Noise figures depend on the operating current and the source impedance and you then have to consider other parameters as well.
Matt S

 

[Category 5]

CDIL (continental device India) makes bc184c currently but they are generally pretty low hfe on average so unless the printing on the device is important i’d probably go for bc550c, or mpsa18 if you can find them. Most bc550c have been on the low side, hfe wise, but perfectly adequate despite that. Don’t forget to flip the mpsa18 if you go that route.

 

[Ricardus]

CDIL still makes 550s and 560s as well. I ordered some through europe. These consistently test better (hfe) than my 550s and 560s from On Semi.

 

[jokeramik]

If you have too much gain your circuit can oscillate.....
other options 2SC2240 or 2SC3324 with a adapter.
Best regards
jokeramik

 

[CJ]

yes, if you buy less expensive parts, you can order a ton and do some matching.

next thing to do after you get your samples of maybe 6 or 7 candidates is draw out a DC transfer curve.
in this case we are trying to restore a McIntosh 2300 for Jerry Garcia's cousin Ben.

 

[CJ]

then if you are lucky enuff to have an original part, you can trace it to the graph and compare notes.

this method will put you ahead of reading specs and assuming that the parts match the specs, which they sometimes do not do.

 

[CJ]

more data sheets>

https://alltransistors.com/transistor.php?transistor=22478

 

[Whoops]

CJ, that's pretty impressive that you did it manually!

Maybe it's time for you to buy a Peak Atlas DCA75, you can connect it to the computer via USB and do curve tracing, pretty usefull

https://www.peakelec.co.uk/acatalog/dca75-dca-pro-semiconductor-analyser.html

 

[CJ]

how much you want for that thing?

 

[Whoops]

I like mine very much, it’s not for sale

 

[mjrippe]

how much you want for that thing?

Looks like $125 at Digi-key

 

[Whoops]

Looks like $125 at Digi-key

its totally worth it, It’s very usefull
I’m happy I bought it and the curve tracing capability is very usefull, you can also save the graphs and info on the computer

but if someone just wants to test Transistors or FETs and check HFE, then the MK-328 cheap tester is great. It gives much simpler measurements and no curve tracing but for the price is a great tool

 

[moamps]

No one mentioned, but for many designs (Neve, DOAs etc.), the low-noise pair BC549C/559C can be very successfully used instead of the pair 184C/214C, and can still be found at affordable prices and from proven manufacturers.

 

[CJ]

BC549C says low noise which is good. Collector current is only 100 ma (note Vdc error) but some of the other data sheets for the 184C have 200 ma instead of 500 ma.
And we still do not know what the actual current draw for the 184C in the Neve circuit at various locations is.

I notice this on modern reissues, the Ic seems to go up.
Whoops, you have a legit 184C you could trace on that magic contraption of yours?

Man i love this pdf upload thing we have now!

 

[Whoops]

I notice this on modern reissues, the Ic seems to go up.
Whoops, you have a legit 184C you could trace on that magic contraption of yours?

Yes for sure,
I still have quite a few BC184C in my stash. Tell me what measurements you want me to trace and I can do it

 

[Whoops]

No one mentioned, but for many designs (Neve, DOAs etc.), the low-noise pair BC549C/559C can be very successfully used instead of the pair 184C/214C

BC550C was mentioned, it’s the same family has BC549C, also low noise, just with an higher breakdown voltage

 

[ruffrecords]

BC549C says low noise which is good. Collector current is only 100 ma (note Vdc error) but some of the other data sheets for the 184C have 200 ma instead of 500 ma.
And we still do not know what the actual current draw for the 184C in the Neve circuit at various locations is.

I am confident it is well under 100mA in all Neve circuits of that era. Even the 2N3055 in the output stage of the BA283 draws less that 100mA. Even if its current gain at that collector current is only 10 times then the BC184 driving it only needs to source 10mA. All other sections of all the other 3 transistor Neve preamps draw less current than this. Even the emitter follower of the other amplifier on this board draws only 6mA.

Cheers

Ian

 

[Blondino]

I'm not an expert in transistor but I'm building a 8 channel neve style preamp and on the BOM I also have bc184c as a transistor to use, but the guy that made the project told me to get a bc109c that was used on the early 1073. He also put a footprint on the PCB for a TO-13 transistor and not a TO-92 that why I was confused about it...
Any thought about this one?

 

[NOON]

I've recently scored a stash of NOS BC107, 108, 109, 184 etc etc etc in metal cans and also own one of the fancy curve tracer widgets. Let me know if you'd like me to run curves on any / all of them. I also have stashes of the modern BC549, 559, 550, 560 etc etc to compare.

 

[CJ]

Yes! Would love to see the Vce vs Ic for different base currents on the BC184C! And more than one would be great!
Then we have a benchmark from which we can take a fearless moral inventory of all other samples under consideration which will then consolidate all our thoughts regardless of the He said She said syndrome.