Brownerizer - Any suggestions?

[Yellowguy]

The "Brown" sound is something I enjoy a lot (not the one that leaves a stain in your shorts...) and I am thinking that some of you might have some ideas for a brownerizer.
I'm thinking a step further than to "warm up" a signal, a little more lo-fi.
Not all the way to a fuzzbox but something that would add a touch of harmonic distortion, a little IMD, maybe limit the frequency response a little.
HF saturation like on too hot vinyl would be cool to!
I think you know what I'm getting at, some sort of crappy circuit :wink:

/Marco

 

[beatpoet]

What about a 1:10 input as a phase splitter, then a balanced circuit containing a triode for each phase operating at somewhat near cutoff feeding a 3:1 output?

 

[Yellowguy]

I am hoping for something solid state.
Not too cofortable working with tubes, afraid of high voltages and the lingo!

Have you tried a circuit as you describe?

/Marco

 

[beatpoet]

Oddly enough I've only tried it solid state...

If you used a dual triode, then you would be working with 'tube.'

You could use a lower voltage and starve the tube for extra graininess.

 

[stickjam]

What's been the experience with using MOSFETS in place of triodes? Thoughts about character and how one would adapt an existing tube design to use them?

I haven't messed with MOSFETS for literally decades - I never had much luck with them, because I'd always blow them up from static electricity before I got them into a circuit. I'd guess they've got to be a little more durable/protected these days.

--Bob

 

[Kit]

Ive thought about building a "tube-fuzz" for a while. Never seem to get around to actually doing it.
But my idea was a ef86 voltage gain stage into a ecc82 LTP with B+ CT 10K:600 transformer on the plates.

MMMMMMMmmmmmmm..................push-pull clipping......................aahhhhrrrr.

 

[Yellowguy]

[quote author="beatpoet"]Oddly enough I've only tried it solid state...

If you used a dual triode, then you would be working with 'tube.'

You could use a lower voltage and starve the tube for extra graininess.[/quote]

So how was it (solid state)?

What's "cutoff" as you mentioned in your previous post?

/Marco

 

[adamasd]

-What's "cutoff" as you mentioned in your previous post?

Cutoff is the point a tube stops conducting and starts distorting.

-my idea was a ef86 voltage gain stage into a ecc82 LTP with B+ CT 10K:600 transformer on the plates

Maybe paraphase inverter would be worth a look into. I suspect you can get closer to that big amp sound with paraphase, and it would allow you to dump the pricey and micrphonic EF86 for any of those cheap plentiful single high mu triodes.

-What's been the experience with using MOSFETS in place of triodes? Thoughts about character and how one would adapt an existing tube design to use them?

I like them, I do not find they sound like triodes much but I do like their sound, MOSFETs make good distortion pedals. Alot of people seem to use MOSFETs and JFETs exactly as if they were triodes, maybe replace one part with a trimmer to tweak after its built, pretty much what that runoffgroove.com place did, lots and lots of people seem to like their amps in a pedal. It makes me wonder if they is a topic that might be overthought and over complicated most of the time.

adam

 

[dshay]

use a neve.

 

[Yellowguy]

[quote author="dshay"]use a neve.[/quote]

I would suspect that you are being cute.
But just in case you are being serious:
I work on Neve's daily, an 8014 console and some 33122a channel modules, for the past 10 years. I would not call them brown, they sound way to good for that to my ears. YMMV

I have used a wide array of new and vintage professional equipment, in my studio and in other studios. Most of it sounds really good, a few sound really crap, and some even do a bit of what I am after here.

The thing is: I am after a cheap and a bit over the top diy effect, not a piece that will set me back thousands that I have to pamper like a baby.

Cheers

/Marco

 

[Joechris]

Mabye this will work with a pad in front:
http://analogguru.an.ohost.de/193/schematics/Lovetone_BrownSource.gif

jo

 

[Yellowguy]

Looks a bit like a toobscreamer with some choice on the tone control.
I'll try it, see if it's too much.

/Marco

 

[josh]

generalguitargadgets.com has a "Brown Sound In A Box" kit for sale. They claim Van Halen this or that, but it's a nice sounding kit with a very low noise floor.

 

[mikep]

[quote author="Yellowguy"][quote author="dshay"]use a neve.[/quote]

I would suspect that you are being cute.
[/quote]

though he may be cute, i agree. it sounds like transformer distortion is what you are after. if a 1272 doesnt give you enough try more DC on the primary and/or an ungapped core w/ some DC bias. try a higher turns ratio. try a transformer meant for mic input at higher levels. try cheaper parts, maybe something intended for telephony made before you were born. then put DC on the primary, etc. play with the loading. you can put a bigish el-cap in series with the load resistor to remove its effect at LF, essentially giving you a tiny bit of bass boost.

if all else fails roll off the highs a little and boost subtly below 100hz. 9 out of 10 people will tell you that sounds "warm".

mike p

 

[mikep]

[quote author="stickjam"]What's been the experience with using MOSFETS in place of triodes? Thoughts about character and how one would adapt an existing tube design to use them?

I haven't messed with MOSFETS for literally decades - I never had much luck with them, because I'd always blow them up from static electricity before I got them into a circuit. I'd guess they've got to be a little more durable/protected these days.

--Bob[/quote]

I hadnt messed with mosfets for only a short while comparativly but was recently surprised by what you can get now. im sure what Im doing with them is pretty out of sync with you so I wont bore you with details but I bet the parts you'd be interested in have similarly matured. one of the devices I used recently has built-in ESD protection. no comment on the tube similarity. they sure as hell won't fit in a tube socket.

 

[gevermil]

slam your track onto a teac 4 track 1/4 inch
or hell , a 1/8" casette 4 track . thats the heart of lofi

 

[Yellowguy]

[quote author="gevermil"]slam your track onto a teac 4 track 1/4 inch
or hell , a 1/8" casette 4 track . thats the heart of lofi[/quote]

I LOVE that, and I think it's really cool to put tracks down on cassette and then back in PT.

Unfortunately, what I need here is real-time processing.

/Marco

 

[rotation]

Some time ago we had a thread where we talked about "distortion control" that new SSL consoles have. I think it was about controling 2nd and 3rd harmonic distortion.
We didn't found out how it works, but i remember someone posted schematic with some kind of diode clipper. Thread is here:
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=18681&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=diode+clipper&start=0
Antoher one is from Pete Millet, for schematic see page 28.
http://www.tenmilecreek.net/images/TheSoundofDistortion.pdf

I would be very intereste in finding SSL's solution. Any thoughts?

 

[Yellowguy]

Thanks for the links, rotation. I'll check them out.

 

[tk@halmi]

You can avoid active electronics and make a "brownish" circuit with two cheap audio transformers and a potentiometer.
For example, take a PC10k/10k (T1) and strap a 10k audio pot accross the secondaries of T1, hook up the wiper to one the primary of the a PC10k/600 (T2).
At no attenuation of the pot, you may get a decent sound. As you attenuate the source resistance seen by T2 goes up and it will start browning.
At the same time you will crank up the output of the preceeding preamp to make up for gain, driving the circuit harder, adding to the brown.

Use cheap transformers.
The expensive ones will ruin your brown.
The smaller the core the more obvious the brown.
You want even browner? Care about signal loss? Nah...
Use a PC600/600 on the output and see how that jerks your brown.
The browner the better.
Brown...