Cable cooking

[Mundox]

There's also CD player cooking.
Recommended music is Classical with a lot of dynamics. Just run it few hundred times and your CD player will sound better.
:shock:

 

[rotation]

[quote author="Mendelt"]Isn't the whole "burning in" thing more about you getting used to your new audio system?

I think with criss's experiment we can rule out any effect on cables.

Will amplifiers and cd-players sound different when "burned in" ? Or is this only in extreme cases where elco's need to be reformed?

Maybe loudspeaker-cones will sound different after some hours of use. But I guess that when this really is audible that the difference after a few years of use (and collecting dust/ drying out/ glue and plastic disintergrating from sunlight) will be far more noticable[/quote]

I can confirme that there are some improvements after burning in the speakers. 1 year ago i bought KRK ST8 speakers, and when i got them home friend and me done some listening tests. We agreed that specially bass was not very good, and highs were a bit agressive.
After few days of use i started to hear little improvement in bass region, even more in highs. With friend we done another test and he heard the same thing. Btw, before the second test i didnt tell him where i hear improvement.
I am 100% sure that my speakers sounded better after burning in.
Miha

 

[NewYorkDave]

Or you got used to the way they sounded.

 

[PRR]

> pardon my ignorance, how do you burn in speakers?

Same way you break in new shoes. You use them.

I try to play a lot of loud Bach on classroom speakers, a lot of hard rock on my own speakers.

Like new leather, new cones and new surrounds will limber-up with use.

> "burned in" with high current DC ... high current AC ... No hearable difference between any of the three cables.

Well, duh! How much DC do you listen to? How much sine-sweep can you stand?

You shoulda used Bach. His big organ pieces are reliable stuff.

 

[Marik]

Interview with Peter J. Walker of Quad after ESL57 hits the market:

--Mr. Walker, what would be the best speaker cables you recommend to use with your new ESL57?

Mr. Walker:

--The ones which would reach from your amplifier to the speakers.

 

[chrissugar]

[quote author="Mendelt"]Isn't the whole "burning in" thing more about you getting used to your new audio system?[/quote]

No, it is not, because for my curiosity I managed to test this. I compared the same device as totally new and the identical device but with month of use behind.
Burn in works in electronic devices that use elcos and/or tubes. Other parts are less sensitive.
Also mechanical parts do benefit after burn in like speakers or the MC/MM cartriges (they have some small rubber suspension).

The best way to burn in eficiently is to use a signal with high enough RMS that contain all the audio frequencies. Pink noise is ideal for this and works faster than burning in with music.
A good trick to burn in and not make too much noise is to use a pink noise file, corelated on both channels, and put the two speakers one in front of the other very close. If the amplifiers, speakers and levels on both channels are almost identical they will make noise of identical presure at all frequencies but out of phase. This will result in a very low level hearable noise.
So you can leave the system to burn in without making too much noise.

[quote author="PRR"]> pardon my ignorance, how do you burn in speakers?

Same way you break in new shoes. You use them. [/quote]

This is the most plastic explanation I ever heard. Excellent. :thumb:

[quote author="PRR"] "burned in" with high current DC ... high current AC ... No hearable difference between any of the three cables.

Well, duh! How much DC do you listen to? How much sine-sweep can you stand?

You shoulda used Bach. His big organ pieces are reliable stuff.[/quote]

I did this because I wanted to test some claims of the audiophile guys. Some said that the best way is to expose the dielectric to DC, others to AC, so I did it both way. Do not forget that some audiofool cable manufacturers sell for extra price, burned in cables, and speculations were that they do it with DC.
For me this myth is busted. burn in do not work on cables.

Related to the burn in signal, I disagree with you, high RMS pink noise is more eficient than any music. Classical music has RMS of -20 -18 dB, and even rock music is -12 -10dB. And they don't have all the frequencies all the time.

chrissugar

 

[chrissugar]

[quote author="Marik"]Interview with Peter J. Walker of Quad after ESL57 hits the market:

--Mr. Walker, what would be the best speaker cables you recommend to use with your new ESL57?

Mr. Walker:

--The ones which would reach from your amplifier to the speakers.[/quote]

Yes, but also Mr. Walker said in an interview that all low distortion amplifiers sound the same. Unfortunately reality is much more complicated.

chrissugar

 

[Mundox]

I agree on burnt in speakers sounding better, especially on guitar amps. They sound so much sweeter after a few hundred hours of use.

 

[Guest]

[quote author="Mundox"]cable cooking[/quote]
Hi,
Anyone who want DIY short piece of speciality cable
must use cooker and cook it.
I had tried it with PVC and tephlon insulated wires.
Firstly twist the wires together,
then fix that twisted wires on some former i.e. roller.

Put this on the cooker with water and begin cook.
After water starts warming stop cooking and let the water to get cold.

Now you can pick up wires from the former and you
have rigid twisted cable. You can now put in on the shield.

I had DIYed speciality twisted and shielded cable this way and all is O.K.

have fun,
xvlk

 

[NewYorkDave]

I'm starting to think that "elco" must mean something different in Europe.

In the States, it refers to a type of connector.

 

[chrissugar]

hey Dave

"elco" is a standard short name for electrolit condenser.

chrissugar

 

[NewYorkDave]

Hmmm.. I like that about as much as I like "trafo" :?

I call 'em electrolytics or just 'lytics.

 

[Mendelt]

[quote author="NewYorkDave"]Hmmm.. I like that about as much as I like "trafo" :?

I call 'em electrolytics or just 'lytics.[/quote]

I don't know if it's european or dutch. It's short for electrolytic condensor or "electrolitische condensator" i think. And I agree. It's not something we should use ... just a slip of the keyboard :shock:

 

[pucho812]

Here is a US elco

it's made by edac and is a multi pin connector.


[quote author="PRR"]> pardon my ignorance, how do you burn in speakers?

Same way you break in new shoes. You use them.

I try to play a lot of loud Bach on classroom speakers, a lot of hard rock on my own speakers.

Like new leather, new cones and new surrounds will limber-up with use.

> "burned in" with high current DC ... high current AC ... No hearable difference between any of the three cables.

Well, duh! How much DC do you listen to? How much sine-sweep can you stand?

You shoulda used Bach. His big organ pieces are reliable stuff.[/quote]

PRR glad to have you back around these parts :thumb: As always short, Simple explination that most can understand.

I usually will burn in speakers over night as said before using pink noise. I will hide them away from people so no one touches and next day they are good to go. Use a medium volume and it's perfect or so the people who get them after me say so...

 

[JohnRoberts]

no.. an audio phools joke.

JR

 

[rodabod]

********.

Even that skin-effect talk was pushing it.

 

[mikka]

Re: speakers..... yar .... I've got a "Speaker Conditioning" CD ...... basically a series of frequency sweeps..... passed on to me..... I used music before that ......

The idea is that the cone and surround need loosening up ...... Also that the mechanical parts of the speaker have the most difficulty with the high freqs, due to the low energy involved. Running the high freqs through it help the cone to work better at those freqs ..... a bit like playing a classical or acoustic guitar "in". Segovia always had one green guitar he was "playing in", for when his prime one got tired.

Then, the more the speaker is worked, the more tired the cone and surround become. The don't vibrate or return as well ..... and it's time to recone or replace 'em.

It hasn't help me win a Grammy ..... but the knowledge makes me feel good.

 

[pstamler]

Pink noise works okay for breaking in speaker systems. At the speaker store, for breaking in woofers, we used to hook them up to the secondary of a power transformer out in the shed.

Once they'd been broken in for a couple of days the difference was palpable; you could feel how much looser the suspension had become in comparison to a new-out-of-the-box woofer. Correct me if I'm wrong, but looser suspension = lower Fs and higher Qts, meaning better bass extension, at least in a closed-box system.

As for amplifiers, try measuring the leakage current on filter electrolytics when you turn them on for the first time, then half an hour later, then a day later. Big difference.

Most manufacturers ignore that, but not all; Hafler, on their pro power amps, warned that best sound would be achieved by waiting half an hour after turning them on, and that's been my experience.

Cable burn-in? Naah.

Peace,
Paul

 

[bcarso]

I think a lot of this stuff where the effects are so "subtle" as to be unmeasurable are as much or more "brain burn-in". I have the same reaction when a wine "tasting" becomes an excuse to quaff, rather than remain objective by swirling, sniffing, sipping, and spitting out. Amazing how much better that young Cab got with some air!*

After working for a long time on a hollow state-sand state hybrid EQ for a friend, to get him something to take to a show I rolled a solid-state version in the space of a couple of days. Inevitably I was told it sounded sterile and flat etc. etc., but after a few days of "burn-in" got to be acceptable. I'll venture (based on the absence of any 'lytics for instance in the signal path---in fact only one capacitor in the highpass signal path---and blameless rail regulators) the conditioning was of the ears of the 'philes and quite possibly the speaker system.



*There really is an effect from airing of course, but it is best appreciated by retasting over long intervals and not getting polluted in the meantime.

 

[Larrchild]

Dunno the exact reason, but every limiter I build sounds better after a half hour when I midwife them to life.

Caps forming, I imagine.