Can low mains voltage hurt equipment?

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camshash

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Sep 4, 2021
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Im having an issue where on hot days that everyone is using their A/C (Im assuming this is the culprit since in winter I never had this issue, and on cool days/nights) my furman's and multimeters will read voltage low, like 95V (I am in USA). What affect can this have on studio gear, amps, etc?

For troubleshooting purposes I have turned off my A/C, amplifiers, and large appliances and the mains voltage still reads low. During cool days and during night voltage reads in a healthy range. Havent checked my neighbors house yet but will just to confirm it's a grid issue and not my house
 
That's low enough to alert your utility company. That's outside the +/- 5% specification, and would probably qualify as a brownout.

One summer at my old place in NJ I noticed something similar (but I had only 78V). After a week of this I called the utility company and at first they didn't believe me because they'd received no other complaints. Eventually I convinced them to send someone out and read it themselves, and sure enough they eventually found a defective piece of equipment on the pole down the block (I think it was a transformer). They replaced that part to rectify it.

The reason they received no complaints is because so much modern electronic equipment is regulated and fairly tolerant of wide swings. Even outside of that, anything that's designed to also operate in Japan would likely handle the 95V just fine.

I can't speak to lasting damage from undervoltage, but some gear will malfunction and other things will be okay. The first things I'd be checking are anything that has step-up power transformers inside (tube gear), as 25V low on the primary could easily become a discrepancy of 100V or more after a large step-up ratio
 
Indeed most modern gear it pretty tolerant of low mains voltage... many universal input switching supplies will work down to something like 65V AC. I recall problems with early power amps using switching supplies where the switchers could get stupid from too low mains voltage. Modern gear doesn't get stupid it just shuts off if too low to work.

[TMI] I've told this story so many times it is even boring me but one night a couple decades ago I noticed than my incandescent light bulbs were unusually bright. We humans generally don't have good short term memory of absolute brightness so I decided to dig out my VOM... Sure enough I was reading 135+VAC across my nominally 115 VAC mains outlets.

Just to be certain that it wasn't a personal problem ( a floating open circuit center tap coming from the power drop can load down one side pushing up the other.) Sure enough inside my fuse box I metered 270-280VAC across the two legs.... So my power drop was definitely coming in hot.

The lights appeared to be getting brighter as the night went on, so I called the local power company office 25 miles away. The guy who answered the phone said I must be mistaken but that it was a slow night so he would come out and check for himself. About a half hour later a big power company truck with flashing yellow lights pulled up in front of my house. He dragged out his trusty Simpson 260 VOM and probed the power drop behind my house. After a few muttered curse words he conceded I was correct and said wait a minute while he went to check something. He drove away, but came back several minutes later. There is a power substation a few miles up the road from me and apparently they use a stepper relay with an auto-former to bump up the mains voltage as the load increased during hot days to make up for voltage sag (IxR losses). Apparently the auto former got stuck while boosting, and as the load fell off as the night went on, the mains voltage kept climbing.

He probably used a percussive repair technique (whacked it with a hammer). I suspect I saved the utility several dollars that night as they could have fried some residential appliances at the rate they were going. I didn't even get a thank you but at least he admitted I was right about the too high voltage. [/tmi]

JR
 
I also didn't get a "thank you" when I alerted PSE&G to the above-mentioned problem. They seemed almost annoyed that I was right, actually! This probably would've been ca. 2007

For the record, the thing that prompted me to check was that I noticed that my Deluxe Reverb wasn't sounding as good as it usually did. It was subtle, and I was chasing a few things around. It had a really nice set of NOS Marconi 6V6s in it that were pretty fresh, so I was pretty sure there wasn't output tube wear. Before opening the amp I decided to check mains voltage and that's when I read the 78VAC. "Well there's your problem."
 
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78 volts DC ?
If you have a transformer on the utility pole and another in the dwelling itself how could DC be present?

The ESB or electricity supply board is the national service here in Ireland , initially set up as a state company back in the 1930's , we had the Germans come in and build several Hydroelectric plants and they've run like clockwork ever since .
The company itself is now more or less privatised and the workers hold the majority share , as business and profits have sky rocketed even retired ESB workers have seen their pension scheme pay out far more than they ever expected ,
Ive said it before , its one of our best success stories as a nation ,
serious tough nuts succeeded in the job of rural electrification over very hostile geography and a top notch organisation was born .
Regrets ,hhhm we probably all have a few ,
I love music pasionately , sound Ive indulged myself , If I'd swapped +/- and screen for LNE and maybe some instrumentation I'd have been a far wealthier man than trying to carve a living out of the arse end of the music business .
 
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78 volts DC ?
If you have a transformer on the utility pole and another in the dwelling itself how could DC be present?

The ESB or electricity supply board is the national service here in Ireland , initially set up as a state company back in the 1930's , we had the Germans come in and build several Hydroelectric plants and they've run like clockwork ever since .
The company itself is now more or less privatised and the workers hold the majority share , as business and profits have sky rocketed even retired ESB workers have seen their pension scheme pay out far more than they ever expected ,
Ive said it before , its one of our best success stories as a nation ,
serious tough nuts succeeded in the job of rural electrification over very hostile geography and a top notch organisation was born .
Regrets ,hhhm we probably all have a few ,
I love music pasionately , sound Ive indulged myself , If I'd swapped +/- and screen for LNE and maybe some instrumentation I'd have been a far wealthier man than trying to carve a living out of the arse end of the music business .

That's what happens when you post after 15.5 hours of flying from Barcelona to LAX, plus the 9 hours gained from the time zone shift.

I mean VAC, of course.
 
Just last week I plugged a piece of gear (ICs only), erroneously switched to 200V internally, into 100V mains here in Japan. It took me a while to realize it, cos I had assumed the unit to be broken in the first place. What I saw was only half of LEDs lit, relays not working and sound fully crapped out. After switching to 100V all was good. 200 mains into 100V gear would have been easier to realise -- instant cap launch : boom !

Also, I have a piece of gear from Europe by a maker known to seriously underspecc (near overload) their power transformers. Switched to 100V, but with a tad less than 100V coming from mains, the unit's pilot light starts to flicker. Gear otherwise works and has done so for years, but most likely not to optimal performance.

Both units are IC gear.
 
Back several decades ago the original Peavey CS800 power amp was well liked because it would keep working even with low mains voltage (probably down to 65VAC). This was more of an issue in developing countries with unreliable mains power distribution. Of course power output was low but it kept working.

In some regions of the world we saw unusually low and high mains voltage at the same lime. Sending power down too long lines could sag low voltage at the far end, and be too high voltage at the sending end. Products designed to work in all these markets had to survive a significant range of over/under voltage.

JR
 
It cam be a big problem in 230v countries with equipment that automatically switches between 230v (full wave bridge) and 115v (voltage doubler) mode depending on what the sense circuitry thinks the incoming voltage is. Generators can really confuse this sort of gear...
 
Had the opposite problem about a year back- We had a bit of a brownout around 6PM in the winter, and when things came back they came back REAL bright. In the studio all my racks shut down to 'Extreme Voltage' and in the shop the power meter that feeds my bench was showing 145VAC (Canada, nearish our drop transformer, so I'd normally see 117VAC on a hot summer day, or 123VAC in the winter.)

It didn't rectify itself after a few minutes, so i ran around shutting down anything that wasn't a switch mode, and called our municipal hydro co. They came out, came to the door, and I told them the issue and what preceded it and said I wondered if likely they'd got a damaged primary winding, since the leg to leg was nearly 300VAC, and evenly balanced on the secondary side. They thought that sounded like a solid theory- did some checks of their own to confirm what I was saying, and that it affected the other 4 or 6 houses fed from that transformer. Came back to the door about 20 minutes later and said yup, that's what it was, and they'd be sending a crew out to replace it within the hour. Sure enough the trucks rolled in about 60 minutes later, shut down power for 45 minutes and did their thing. Linemen and Linewomen don't get nearly the credit they deserve, esp the ones who do the emergency and troubleshooting calls. The crew that came to my call asked me if I was in the industry, and I explained that I wasn't, but adjacent, on much smaller scales, and that it was mostly because of my shop and studio setups and metering that I noticed right away the scope of the problem. I figured most people would barely notice their lights being a bit brighter until things started to pop. Apparently I was right- I was the only person who'd called in the issue (that ultimately persisted for 2 hours or more by the time they came back to replace.)

One Canadian lineman/troubleman has a fairly popular YouTube channel where he does everything from showing splicing techniques, and explaining the equipment, to just doing his regular day-to-day work. One thing he makes a point of saying a lot is that a lot of times people assume that hydro co's know when a fault happens- and that's surely true when it's major or causes a notable disturbance on the grid that the main dispatch can see- but more often then not they don't know about faults that are more limited in scope. And that if you have a problem, you're always better to call it in. The more data they get the faster and better they can work. Any information you can give them about preceding events, noises, whatever... it all helps save them time.

He actually said one of the big problems can be that in less-dense suburban and rural areas you can get a squirrel pop a transformer or switch- but because of nature being what nature is, often times an animal or bird will run off with the Char-broiled Squirrel Combo before they can get there, and they can spend hours trying to find a fault that doesn't exist because they couldn't confirm a "Fur Fault"...

So ok that whole long ass JR-style TMI is basically to say - Call the utility and let them know. That's way out of spec and it's probable that you're the only one who knows about it. They're probably happier on the whole to know about it BEFORE it causes damage to either your equipment or theirs. That shorted winding in my hood might have held on for a bit- but i'd bet if no one had noticed, the next big sign would have been a transformer vault fire, under a tree, overhanging my neighbours house...
 
It cam be a big problem in 230v countries with equipment that automatically switches between 230v (full wave bridge) and 115v (voltage doubler) mode depending on what the sense circuitry thinks the incoming voltage is. Generators can really confuse this sort of gear...
I killed a bunch of brain cells last century soaking that question in late night beer. For an international manufacturer it would be very desirable to have a single SKU work in multiple markets. Reviewing the SOTA several decades ago I found one series of semi-pro products that ran unregulated rails and tolerated roughly half voltage PS rails in 115VAC market. Professional customers would have noticed the discrepancy in headroom/output, but not the semi(not)-pro crowd. Now universal switching power supplies can operate from something like 65VAC-265VAC, so problem solved, almost.

I also discussed this with our international distributors and some were unenthusiastic about universal power supply products, because that makes it easier for their dealers to transship products into other countries/markets, messing up their distribution channels.

You can't please everybody.

JR
 
A number of years ago I noticed lamps dimming and brightening as things turned on and off in the house. After a while I put a meter across an outlet and watched as the line voltage shifted in a range of about +/- 30V around a nominal 120. My neighbor, who worked for the local utility had just returned from a vacation and saw the same thing at his house. He knew exactly what was going on and in a few minutes a utility truck showed up and dug a hole in his yard.
The neutral had opened up between his house and the tranny; we are downstream of his house so we saw the same thing. In the US with it's split phase 120-0-120 system, the centertap of the transformer is earthed, so if the neutral opens up you have a resistive connection through earth between the load and the tranny. Without a solid neutral connection the voltage between 120 and neutral shifts depending on the balance between the two 120V legs of the transformer. Yikes!
 
A number of years ago I noticed lamps dimming and brightening as things turned on and off in the house. After a while I put a meter across an outlet and watched as the line voltage shifted in a range of about +/- 30V around a nominal 120. My neighbor, who worked for the local utility had just returned from a vacation and saw the same thing at his house. He knew exactly what was going on and in a few minutes a utility truck showed up and dug a hole in his yard.
The neutral had opened up between his house and the tranny; we are downstream of his house so we saw the same thing. In the US with it's split phase 120-0-120 system, the centertap of the transformer is earthed, so if the neutral opens up you have a resistive connection through earth between the load and the tranny. Without a solid neutral connection the voltage between 120 and neutral shifts depending on the balance between the two 120V legs of the transformer. Yikes!
the scary thing about an open center tap is that one leg sags low and pushes the other leg high...

JR
 
yes but it's more likely to affect motors (it'll make the fridge or freezer compressor fail early) and things with hot filaments, so I mean electric lamps and heaters in valves (vacuum tubes) rather than cooker elements though.

Most solid state equipment won't mind (too much) although it may not perform well or even to spec.
 
The first generation colour TVs didn't like sagging mains. Some didn't work but survived, some broke immediately. To avoid that, some were sold with power stabilisers.

I wonder if that was because of the tubes, as these were "hybrid", part solid-state, part tube.
 
Recent extended brownout fried the circuit board in our kitchen stove; had to buy a new one - the parts and repair were only slightly less money.
 

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