mike_relay
Well-known member
cool.. found it on the all music guide.... too bad the clip is so short.
can someone explain binaural mics?
- Thread starter pucho812
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Mendelt
Well-known member
[quote author="pucho812"]
As for capsules, for all intensive purposes I could hack up a bringer eseem8000 and mount it in the head for my needs. or better yet some earthyworky mics but that ew's would be a shame as they are nice mics. bboys are cheap at about 35 a mic and would be o.k. for a first outting and definatelyup gradeable. I figure not including build time and if I were to go with the 8000 cost would be between 100-120 US I don't think a mannaquin head could cost more then 50 US?[/quote]
One of the projects I'm currently working on is modifying my behringer 8000's with panasonic capsules. That was one of the reasons I asked. Svart and/or Marik have some info on this somewhere including complete schematics / pcb-designs for mic-electronics for use with a modded panasonic capsule that fit in a ecm8000.
More info here:
http://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=111051&highlight=marik+ecm*
and here:
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=3626&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15
As for capsules, for all intensive purposes I could hack up a bringer eseem8000 and mount it in the head for my needs. or better yet some earthyworky mics but that ew's would be a shame as they are nice mics. bboys are cheap at about 35 a mic and would be o.k. for a first outting and definatelyup gradeable. I figure not including build time and if I were to go with the 8000 cost would be between 100-120 US I don't think a mannaquin head could cost more then 50 US?[/quote]
One of the projects I'm currently working on is modifying my behringer 8000's with panasonic capsules. That was one of the reasons I asked. Svart and/or Marik have some info on this somewhere including complete schematics / pcb-designs for mic-electronics for use with a modded panasonic capsule that fit in a ecm8000.
More info here:
http://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=111051&highlight=marik+ecm*
and here:
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=3626&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15
pucho812
Well-known member
dumb question 
but have to ask.
How did you get your 8000 apart. was trying to study it and got the 3 screws off but didn't know where and was unable to go from there.
but have to ask.How did you get your 8000 apart. was trying to study it and got the 3 screws off but didn't know where and was unable to go from there.
mike_relay
Well-known member
I have not done this myself yet, I got this info from Marik:
Also, there are a couple of circuits on Scoddidly's site that you can use with the Panasonic capsules.. so there might not need to take apart the behringers for this project.
-mike
Also, there are a couple of circuits on Scoddidly's site that you can use with the Panasonic capsules.. so there might not need to take apart the behringers for this project.
-mike
Mendelt
Well-known member
[quote author="pucho812"]dumb question but have to ask.
How did you get your 8000 apart. was trying to study it and got the 3 screws off but didn't know where and was unable to go from there.[/quote]
The tip is glued onto the mic. I just held the tip in a gas-flame and it came off. But i destroyed the capsule that way. The capsule is glued to the tip so i don't really know if you can remove it without destroying it. The capsules inside the 8000's are almost the same as the unmodded panasonic wm60's so you can just order a couple of them to replace the behringer capsules.
Can't you just fit two whole mics in the dummy head some way?
but have to ask.How did you get your 8000 apart. was trying to study it and got the 3 screws off but didn't know where and was unable to go from there.[/quote]
The tip is glued onto the mic. I just held the tip in a gas-flame and it came off. But i destroyed the capsule that way. The capsule is glued to the tip so i don't really know if you can remove it without destroying it. The capsules inside the 8000's are almost the same as the unmodded panasonic wm60's so you can just order a couple of them to replace the behringer capsules.
Can't you just fit two whole mics in the dummy head some way?
DrFrankencopter
Well-known member
First off, I don't think you'll be happy with the sound of the manequin...it'll probably have all kinds of weird resonances, and the absombtion/reflection characteristics are nothing like human flesh.
In the end binaral recordings are wild on headphones, and usually incoherent on speakers. Instead, consider an baffled omni approach (jenlklin disk, of sphere baffle). I've got one of the Schoeps KfM-6 mics, and it's really incredible...amazing imaging on headphones, and still very beleivable on loudspeakers. I'm sure that making one of these with a pair of canniblalized ECM8000's and a nice chunk of hollowed wood (filled with fiberglass to damp resonances) kind of like the THE sphere mics would work wonders, and would be pretty cheap. Size needs to be about 8 inches in diameter (20 cm for the Schoeps) , otherwise some kind of equalization network is required.
Cheers,
Kris
In the end binaral recordings are wild on headphones, and usually incoherent on speakers. Instead, consider an baffled omni approach (jenlklin disk, of sphere baffle). I've got one of the Schoeps KfM-6 mics, and it's really incredible...amazing imaging on headphones, and still very beleivable on loudspeakers. I'm sure that making one of these with a pair of canniblalized ECM8000's and a nice chunk of hollowed wood (filled with fiberglass to damp resonances) kind of like the THE sphere mics would work wonders, and would be pretty cheap. Size needs to be about 8 inches in diameter (20 cm for the Schoeps) , otherwise some kind of equalization network is required.
Cheers,
Kris
mike_relay
Well-known member
[quote author="Schoeps Website"]This is brought about by the unique construction of the microphone capsules, the effect of the sphere as an acoustic baffle, and some special electronic circuitry built into the amplifier.[/quote]
Anybody have any ideas what this "special electronic circuitry" might be?
And Kris, when you say "usually incoherent on speakers" does this mean that it sounds mono.. or are there weird phasing things you can hear on speakers that you would not hear from a mono source?
thanks,
mike
Anybody have any ideas what this "special electronic circuitry" might be?
And Kris, when you say "usually incoherent on speakers" does this mean that it sounds mono.. or are there weird phasing things you can hear on speakers that you would not hear from a mono source?
thanks,
mike
DrFrankencopter
Well-known member
I haven't had my Sphere apart, so I can't tell you what's inside,....actually I'm not really sure how to get it apart.
Yeah, with regard to incoherent, binaural mics are really meant for the headphone experience. This is because all the reflections from the ears to the bridge of the nose are already recorded in the signal (head related transfer function, or HRTF)...when you play back on speaker you get this HRTF again. Sort of like filtering the signal twice...
Cheers,
Kris
PS: I did a little digging, and if you can find the following references you may get an idea of what's going on inside the sphere:
Theile, G.: On the naturalness of two-channel stereo sound.
J. Audio Eng. Soc.(39), 1991, pp. 761-767.
Horbach, U:: New techniques for the production of multichannel sound.
103rd AES Convention, 1997, Preprint 4624
Basically, Theile is the guy you want to look for...
Yeah, with regard to incoherent, binaural mics are really meant for the headphone experience. This is because all the reflections from the ears to the bridge of the nose are already recorded in the signal (head related transfer function, or HRTF)...when you play back on speaker you get this HRTF again. Sort of like filtering the signal twice...
Cheers,
Kris
PS: I did a little digging, and if you can find the following references you may get an idea of what's going on inside the sphere:
Theile, G.: On the naturalness of two-channel stereo sound.
J. Audio Eng. Soc.(39), 1991, pp. 761-767.
Horbach, U:: New techniques for the production of multichannel sound.
103rd AES Convention, 1997, Preprint 4624
Basically, Theile is the guy you want to look for...
bcarso
Well-known member
Dr. Horbach has never quite gotten over the cruelty of H*rm*n's policy on beer with lunch (Nichts!! Nein! Kein Bier!), having come from Germany...
Scodiddly
Well-known member
[quote author="mike_relay"][quote author="Schoeps Website"]This is brought about by the unique construction of the microphone capsules, the effect of the sphere as an acoustic baffle, and some special electronic circuitry built into the amplifier.[/quote]
Anybody have any ideas what this "special electronic circuitry" might be?
And Kris, when you say "usually incoherent on speakers" does this mean that it sounds mono.. or are there weird phasing things you can hear on speakers that you would not hear from a mono source?
[/quote]
I think I've seen a rough diagram of that type of circuitry. Basically it does a bit of L/R phase cancellation to turn the signal into something more suited to stereo speakers than the raw signal.
Anybody have any ideas what this "special electronic circuitry" might be?
And Kris, when you say "usually incoherent on speakers" does this mean that it sounds mono.. or are there weird phasing things you can hear on speakers that you would not hear from a mono source?
[/quote]
I think I've seen a rough diagram of that type of circuitry. Basically it does a bit of L/R phase cancellation to turn the signal into something more suited to stereo speakers than the raw signal.
bcarso
Well-known member
pucho wrote: "Taking a hunting trip there this weekend, a head hunting trip
My buddy has a friend who works in a prop department and suggested that we could see about me getting a mold of me and then making a rubber head but that would just creep me out to much. although I may take him up on the offer."
I let an ID firm get molds of my ear once when they were working on headphones. They still have my ear and some others on their wall in a display. It is a trifle eerie looking.
My buddy has a friend who works in a prop department and suggested that we could see about me getting a mold of me and then making a rubber head but that would just creep me out to much. although I may take him up on the offer."
I let an ID firm get molds of my ear once when they were working on headphones. They still have my ear and some others on their wall in a display. It is a trifle eerie looking.
SSLtech
Well-known member
[quote author="bcarso"]I let an ID firm get molds of my ear once... <snip> ... It is a trifle eerie looking.[/quote]
I find that most ears are "Ear-ey" looking! :wink:
Keef
I find that most ears are "Ear-ey" looking! :wink:
Keef
pucho812
Well-known member
Just got in my copy of tape op this would be the latest one. There is a artical about building a binaural mic. Will be reading that one ASAP. Still at the drawing board as the head hunting trip didn't turn out as played I.E. no head for the mic body. Back to the drawing board.
hey buddy, i posted this somewhere else too, but i remember doing a recording with a "binaural" head that the guy said was an actual human head. he said it was quite illegal to have one(the scientific ones are molds) but he packed it with gels to simulate tissue and it had 3 xlrs coming out of it. he was the guy who did the clocks on dark side. maybe you can use this info.
mike_relay
Well-known member
[quote author="pucho812"]Still at the drawing board as the head hunting trip didn't turn out as played I.E. no head for the mic body. Back to the drawing board.[/quote]
How about this one? Kinda looks like Mr. Clean... :grin:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4722&item=6538431239&rd=1
I'm gonna check with this local woodworking shop, see if they can make me a big wood ball, I might try to do something like the schoeps mic.
-mic
How about this one? Kinda looks like Mr. Clean... :grin:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=4722&item=6538431239&rd=1
I'm gonna check with this local woodworking shop, see if they can make me a big wood ball, I might try to do something like the schoeps mic.
-mic
pucho812
Well-known member
didn't search evilbay thanks mike. :thumb:
this one is closer and cheaper to los angeles.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10797&item=7163646598&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
this one is closer and cheaper to los angeles.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=10797&item=7163646598&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
Marik
Well-known member
For classical piano I like the most Jecklin disk, with my revorked and tubed SP C4 omni mics. I compared it to Neumann KU-100 head. The latest sounds very nice on headphones, but cannot be compared to Jecklin disk for realism on speakers. It sounds very natural. Make a search on Josephson site and the web for more details.
Sleeper
Well-known member
hey Pucho,
I don't know if you've found the head yet, but if not, you will find it in downtown LA at a retail store fixtures supply. I think Acme is one. they have shelves, display cases, manequins etc. there are dozens of these stores in the garment district.
BTW, does anyone have the schemo to Mariks ecm8000 mod.
I can't find it.
Sleeper
I don't know if you've found the head yet, but if not, you will find it in downtown LA at a retail store fixtures supply. I think Acme is one. they have shelves, display cases, manequins etc. there are dozens of these stores in the garment district.
BTW, does anyone have the schemo to Mariks ecm8000 mod.
I can't find it.
Sleeper
Marik
Well-known member
[quote author="Sleeper"]
BTW, does anyone have the schemo to Mariks ecm8000 mod.
I can't find it.
Sleeper[/quote]
It is here:
http://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=111051&page=5&pp=25
Post No.112
BTW, does anyone have the schemo to Mariks ecm8000 mod.
I can't find it.
Sleeper[/quote]
It is here:
http://homerecording.com/bbs/showthread.php?t=111051&page=5&pp=25
Post No.112
G
Guest
Guest
Just bought "The Microphone Book" yesterday and it had a good couple of pages on Binaurals.
A few problems - due to phase (if you have a sound source at an example one o'clock from the head - part of the the sound waves have to go around the head to get to the left mic/ear)
Also placing the mics on the side of the head as opposed to inside the head pointing out...
Good article...
A few problems - due to phase (if you have a sound source at an example one o'clock from the head - part of the the sound waves have to go around the head to get to the left mic/ear)
Also placing the mics on the side of the head as opposed to inside the head pointing out...
Good article...
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