caps....

[j.hall]

sorry if i keep posting stuff that has already been discussed

i do a few searches before posting this stuff.

as far as caps go for the ssl clone, is anyone noticing any increased performance by using any particular type of caps.

i'll probably order panasonics.....but if there is something better, or whatever, i'd appreciate the insight.

NOTE: i want to build the BEST sounding beast i can. i simply need to know what parts NOT to skimp on. parts are cheap, my time is not. i'd rather do this right the first time. any help is MUCHO appreciated.

 

[Svart]

use polypropylenes for the coupling caps(parallel to the lytics) in the audio path too..

 

[soundguy]

I used avx tants in mine, panasonic polys and nichicon upw's and I found that to be a really good combo for the sort of characteristic "sluggish" ssl sound. Panasonic FC's are great if you like extended high end and they also tend to have a mid range scoop happening consistently with the circuits Ive tried them with, I thought they benefitted the sound of a dbx 160, but dont like them in most other stuff. If you want a more hi-fi sounding thing, FC's are totally the way to go, that would be my pick for the "unmuddying" or "sparklifying" cap...

I wish that some of the big mailorder catalogs would carry elna caps, Ive really been dying to try those but just cant justifying paying fetish component prices for those things from the small places that stock them in limited values. My favorite new sounding cap that is easily available from mouser or digikey is the nichicon upw, but they have a unique sound that you should investigate first before buying hundreds... Really smooth midrange, easy high end, but a really subdued sound. For the classic growl I dont think the BC axial caps from digikey can be beat by anything, the match to the old phillips in the api stuff is really really close, its THAT sound. Fitting those however on the current layout for the ssl could be a bit challenging. I recapped the electrolytics in my console with those BC's and it hits you over the head like a caveman with a treetrunk...

dave

 

[Emperor-TK]

Dave, Which BC series, the ASM 021's? I want that caveman/treetrunk sound. :grin:

 

[soundguy]

Id have to look, they are the bigger, high temperature ones in the blue wrapper.

dave

 

[tommypiper]

I agree about the FCs being clear and a touch bright.

I just tried the Nichichon HE series from Digi-key, they are cheaper than FCs. I was impressed. Seem clean and open.

cheers,
-tommypiper

 

[soundguy]

the HE's are cool, tighter sounding top than the UPW's which I think are worth a listen if you like the HE's.

dave

 

[JustinS]

Wow Dave and others,

Interesting info, I've yet to do any real listening tests between different brands of caps (still a newbie DIY'er) would be interested in maybe a group list of Brands and their general sound characteristics (though this is a very arguable topic)... what do you all say?? :grin:

 

[hitchhiker]

Dave,

Thanks for sharing your observations on caps. I have been very concerned with my SSL .I used the FC's and am getting the mid scoop
and hi end hype and really don't like it. I'm gonna try out the nichicon
UPW.

My digikey catalog shows PW series , I'm guessing that's the right series ?

cheers,
Lance

 

[hitchhiker]

hi Buttachunk,

I can only say that my SSL looses something in the mid range and
things like symbols increase a tad , accoustic guitars get scratchy etc.

I think it's more of a case of scooping the mids and therefore it gives more level to hi end and low end.

Maybe it's the sound of the SSL but I would like to hear less of a change when I put it in the path.I have two units ,so I'll do one with the PW caps
and compare.

cheers,
Lance

 

[soundguy]

hey butta-

how does the phase linearity of the FC's account for the wierd midrange those things have? I guess whatever the technical reason, when it comes down to the sound that comes out of the speakers, I've really dislike those caps in almost all of the audio applications Ive tried them in. I suppose something like that might be interesting for hifi, but I tried them as candidates for recapping a lot of old gear and the only thing I left them in was a par of dbx 160's. We all like what we like though, I guess I like a cap that has a rolled off high end. For me personally, especially in limiter. With the way I usually use a limiter for vocals, sibilance is a constant battle as vocals usually get tracked with lots of distortion, so finding a mellow cap that isnt going to either hype that or smear it all over the place is really important. I could see however, if you were trying to make a very accurate sounding box that we'd probably be on different sides of the fence. It would be cool to compare them in person, I bet they sound noticably different.

dave

 

[soundguy]

definitely try out the brown upw series nichicons, I think they are really unique sounding, definitely much different sounding than anything else Ive tried. I wish elna caps were readily available in the US. grumble grumble.

dave

 

[tommypiper]

Butta, that's cool about the FC phase linearity. Have you tried Black Gates? I think they are even better in that regard. But they're so expensive, only make sense in critical spots, and usually in smaller values.

Dave, where do you get the brown UPWs?

cheers,
tommypiper

 

[Svart]

so what do you guys think about values of caps? besides voltage, does the value have an effect on sound?

 

[soundguy]

you can get the upw's from mouser or digikey, although I think they might be listed as pw in the digikey catalog. they are the ultra low impedance series, come in a brown wrapper.

Im so not an expert, but with input and output audio coupling, smaller value = less bass. I dont know if thats a rule or just isolated by chance to my experience.

dave

 

[hitchhiker]

....I thought I'd report back on my cap experiments comparing otherwise identical units GSSL comps.

GSSL#1
I pulled out FC caps on the input and output sections and put in PW series. Left the FC's in the side chain and power supply.
This was worth the effort.The mids came back into the mix and the highs
are still very clear and maybe sweeter.

GSSL #2 I changed out all the FC's for PW's and the result is a smearing
of soundstage mid and high. Also, the high's seem accented in a lower frequency.(I hope that makes sense)

If I only had one unit I'd take the #1. But I can see #2 being good for some tracks too so I think I'll leave it as is.

cheers,
Lance

 

[Svart]

thanks Butta, that's what i thought but wanted a 2nd opinion! I usually increase the lytic coupling cap's value and add a polypro in parallel. My opinion is that it does indeed sweeten the highs and extend the lows. I do need to increase the caps in my PS though....

 

[tommypiper]

FWIW, I just talked to Digi-key and the tech there, Levi, said the Nichichon HE caps are actually closest to the Panasonic FM series, not the FCs.

Has anyone tried the Panasonic FMs?

He said the FMs might not be as good as the FCs for audio. He said the equivalent to the FCs is the Nichichon PW!

Panasonic FC = Nichichon PW
Panasonic FM = Nichichon HE

I've had very good results with the FCs and the HEs, both clear and open. I'm surprised to see they don't correlate. Now I'll try the FMs as well.

These are all good quality cheap caps of the hi-fi flavor it seems.

cheers,
tommypiper

 

[JustinS]

Hey Dave,

which Elna electros do you recomend & what do they do the sound??

And does anyone have exp with Rubycon or Vishay caps??

Justin.

 

[soundguy]

Ive never used elna caps. Ive always written off the incredible sound of my little labs IBP to the red elna caps inside. Im very excited to try them out!

I wouldnt get too caught up with manufacturer comparisons, for, if a panasonic FC is closest to a nichicon UPW in spec, I can not think of two caps that sound more different. Where the FC has a giant mid range scoop and high end under a magnifying glass, the UPW's have a nice midrange bump and a mellow high end roloff. Perhaps they match in terms of temperature rating, operational hours, etc. From an audio standpoint, in my listening tests, UPWs and FCs are completely apples and peaches. Ive used the nich HE and I think that sounds more in vain of the FC series with less of a high end bump, which is why I like them, they sound flatter then the FC. The high end on the FC isnt so bad compared to its wierd midrange scoop. This of course like anything else can be incredibly useful if you know about it going into it and incorporate that signature into your design. When I want that sound, I know how to get it, and if you want that sound, the FC's are completely awesome for gettting you there.

dave