Capsules

[Gus]

I am finding that I am begining to become a LD capsule snob. I am finding that except for one china capsule maker I am not liking the other china made LD capsules. I guess once you hear something good your ear/brain notes the difference.

The other capsules can sound good until you place microphones side by side and compare.

When I read at other sites about people writing how great a microphone is I often wonder if they are deaf or never heard a good microphone.

The electronics are a small challange compared to the capsule.

What is interesting is that both 3 and 6 micron capsules can sound very good so diaphram thickness might not be as important as some people believe. I think it is more the overall design

I have not given up on working on the capsules I am still tring to understand what could make a capsule better.

Modded china microphones can be good but you need a good capsule to get it to world class.

I have not heard a J.P. built china capsule. If they are better than the stock china capsules it might be in the skinning and or washer(s) thickness.

A point from this post I guess I am trying to get across. Don't be cheap with the capsule if you are building a microphone G7 etc. It might be good to buy a real neumann,MBHO or blue. If you are going to spend all that time making a tube microphone give it a good capsule. You take some of the circuit posted at the lab it can be world class. I like MBHO capsules and neuamnns I have not spent any time with a blue capsule. I might have to buy a blue M49 type to try for a u47 type microphone.

I will not build any microphone based on the Oktava 219/319 capsule I think that is just a waste of time.

I have not even started to get serious with SD because I have two Ni skinned gefells and the Ni skinned capsules are great compared to PET IMO.

Must buy KM53 KM54 ( said in Homer S voice)

 

[Marik]

Gus,

I spent many hours trying to improve Chinese capsules and almost gave up the idea... almost.

The main challenge is that the performance of conventional Braunmuhl-Weber design relies mostly on the acoustical arrangement. It is quite hard to tune it properly without dissasembling it, and since the diaphragm is not glued you have no much control over thikness of capsule-backplate spacers.

For a long time I've been thinking about purely electrical combination of omni and true fig8 capsules for cardioid pattern. My initial experiments with combining ribbon and electret omni capsules have proved that the sound is much more natural and "listenable". With proper dimentions of omni capsule and ribbon baffle, the directivity characteristic can be chosen so that omni will become cardioid where natural HF roll off starts in the ribbon part. Thus, the omni capsule (which is much easier to design and build) will also serve as a HF "filling", and directivity pattern should be quite uniform. "True fig8" electrostatic capsule instead of ribbon is also a possibility, but I still need to figure out some things before doing it.

 

[jrmintz]

Gus,

Do MBHO sell single capsules? Do you know how much they sell for?

Thanks

:guinness: :sam:

 

[Gus]

At TT someone posted a contact to buy MBHO capsules. I forget who it was?

I posted to try to get a dialog going about other capsules that people have tried. I keep finding that the china made capsules the 797 audio ones seem to sound the best to me.

I sometimes wonder if 797 capsules had some non china designer(s) help.?

I like to test capsules with a clean tube or solid state circuit with all the High Z stuff wired in the air for low leakage paths etc. The 797 just seem to sound better than the other china stuff.

Three of the best capsules I have heard are the capsule in my VM1 MBHO the m7 in my gefell um70 and a u87 capsule in a microphone I worked on.

I guess I am going to have to take some good capsules apart and measure what I can or learn more and build my own.

 

[raysolinski]

I did a search...Atlas pro has the MBHO capsules for 764$....There has to be a better source than that! ..some websites were throwing around prices in the 200-300$ range but didn't sell them...

Ray

 

[rafafredd]

what mics comes with the 797s?

 

[Flatpicker]

[quote author="rafafredd"]what mics comes with the 797s?[/quote]MXL 2003, all Studio Projects mics.

 

[badger]

Hi everybody
If any body in the UK isinterested in expermenting with G7 etc circuitry.I would be prepaired to let them have a capsule on a loan basis.Not too many I'm a lazy sod and they take a long time to make.
Mark,dont give up! When I started making mics almost 20 years ago,just to see if it could be done.I found guys that did vacuum evaporation for resilvering vintage car headlamps.These gus worked out of their garages etc, and would shoot 8 diaphragms (one target)for about 50 quid in todays money.There are a few in the UK,and there must be more in the US.Look in the small adds Vintage car mags.
You will find all this very adictive !
Best of luck. Andy

I think I'm too old for all this exitment !

 

[chrissugar]

Hi Seth,
I was the one at TT who had info from MBHO. I remember it was something like 450 euros for the capsule or something like 550 euros for the complete head for the K1000 or K1100.
When I say complete head it is like at the right of the page:
http://www.mbho.de/products03_25.htm
or
http://www.mbho.de/products03_26.htm
The capsules are not cheap but don't forget that they are something similar to the ones used by B.R.A.U.N.E.R.

Gus, I can perfectly understand you about the chinese capsules. I have and use all the time C12, U67, UM57, CMV563 and BRUEL & KJAER mics and if you are used to the sound of these it is hard to like the chinese capsule based mics.

When I decided to build some mics my goal was to do something at the same level like the ones mentioned, not to make some cheap ones based on chinese capsules.
I hope one day to have time to dedicate some time for this project but now I am too busy with too many projects.

chrissugar

 

[rascalseven]

Gus,

I sold you the MBHO CK12 clone about a year or so ago, and I posted contact info for the MBHO distributor in New York on TT (though I'm visiting my in-laws at the moment, and will not have that info to share with THIS forum until I return home).

I purchased that capsule (not a 'head' or 'lollypop', just the capsule) from the NY distributor who was very helpful. The standard LD MBHO capsule is apparently an excellent clone of the original brass CK12 that AKG put in both the C12 and ELA M250/251 microphones. This is the capsule in all their LD mics. As I recall the bare capsule (6-micron... I don't think they make thinner films) cost me around $425 US. That was a couple or three years ago, so the price might have gone up... but I wouldn't think by too much.

Be aware that these capsule differ from true CK12's (brass not the modern teflon versions) in that they collapse under higher polarization voltages than the CK12's. This occured the first time I put one into a silver 414EB (which previously had a teflon capsule). The film just got 'sucked' against the backplate. I asked David Josephson about this, as he had imported some MBHO models into the US a decade or so ago. He said that MBHO had been working on a CK12 clone, but that their version didn't like higher voltages. I wound up hooking up a 3 or 4 Meg resistor to the voltage rails to bleed a little voltage to ground and this solved the problem, and the capsule performed beautifully.

I contacted MBHO regarding this and they responded not to exceed 60-61 volts polarzation voltage... so keep this in mind when you put one of these in your DIY mics.

As Chrissugar alluded above, MBHO is related to Brauner in that they OEM the capsules for Brauner. The design of the Brauner capsules is, however, entirely different, and therefore will not sound the same as a stock MBHO LD capsule. The Brauner capsule is much more flat and accurate. The MBHO has a shiney top (not sibilant, just shimmery) and a massive, clear bottom end (C12, anyone?)

I'm glad that people are now interested in the MBHO capsules. I was disappointed last year that three separate posts I made regarding these fine capsules went completely unnoticed in various capsule-related threads on TT. Apparently Soundking was all the rage at the time :roll: .

I agree entirely with Gus in that the sound of a truly fine microphone comes from a truly fine capsule. The amplifier is important as well (clearly), but with a cheap capsule the signal is already compromised.

I highly recommend the MBHO's for people serious about building top-quality mics (particularly if you actually value the C12/ELA m251 sound).

Gus, did you every press that MBHO capsule into service??

JC

 

[tamtamstudio]

Nobody tried John Peluso's capsules?
How it work?

 

[Flatpicker]

[quote author="tamtamstudio"]Nobody tried John Peluso's capsules?
How it work?[/quote]I was wondering the same thing. Peluso seems to be getting a lot of attention lately. Could his capsules be anywhere close to the European ones?

 

[Gus]

Joel

Funny you should ask about the capsule. I was just working on the body and grill for a tube microphone circuit to use that capsule in. I have been taking my time building this one. It might be some more time. I am still thinking about how to shock mount the capsule.

 

[fum]

Guys,

would it be useful to list the capsule that come in the different mics in one spot for reference?

Here's the mics I'm messing with at present:

mxl 2001
behringer b2
mxl v67

I'm messing with them, but I don't know what exact capsule is in them, nor what the identifying traits are. I appreciate your insights, as it jump starts the learning process to know what others have had success with :grin:

Regards

ju

 

[rafafredd]

[quote author="fum"]Guys,

would it be useful to list the capsule that come in the different mics in one spot for reference?

ju[/quote]

That would be definetly nice!

 

[jrmintz]

tamtamstudio wrote:
Nobody tried John Peluso's capsules?
How it work?

I used his CK12 type capsule and I liked it a lot. Whether it sounds exactly like a European capsule I really can't say, and frankly I really don't care. The mic I built sounds great, has a unique character and is very useful. I'd love to try an MBHO capsule sometime, maybe my next adventure in mic building. If there is a distributor here in NY who will just sell the capsules I'd love his name when you get a chance, Joel.

Thanks :sam: :guinness:

 

[rascalseven]

Here is MBHO's USA distributor info:

Marcus Demuth
MTC-MBHO US
536 Metropolitan Avenue
Brooklyn NY 11211
[email protected]
800-579-4832
718-963-2777

Enjoy!

JC

 

[jrmintz]

Thanks, Joel

 

[MarcusDemuth]

Re: Statements about MBHO on this forum

We like to thank everyone on this forum for their high opinions about both MBHO microphones and parts.

MBHO Germany, or its US distr. MTC-MBHO US is not planning to expand its current OEM business (s.a. capsules) to additional companies, or individuals, such as DIY'ers.

Unfortunately, we made an exception from this policy to an individual who claimed he is in dire need for 2 MBHO capsules for his beloved and defective, and thus useless, NEUMANN vintage microphone. We did make an exception from our policy and sold 2 capsules to this individual.

To learn on this forum that these capsules were never intended to be used as that said replacement capsule in that vintage NEUMANN microphone, and even worse, now have been sold to a third party (JC writes on 7/4/04 on this forum: "Gus, I sold you the MBHO CK12 clone ...") by this individual is a big disappointment and comes to us as a surprise.

To post the sale of this said capsule on a public forum, is an additional ... well, I decline to be judgemental.

In nature, there are species which pretend to be injured, only to attract attention from prospective prey.
In our case it proved to be an effective, but not quite likeable, method of getting where the forum member "JC" wanted to go.

Sincerely, Marcus Demuth, MTC-MBHO US

 

[Plexibreath]

[quote author="MarcusDemuth"]Re: Statements about MBHO on this forum

We like to thank everyone on this forum for their high opinions about both MBHO microphones and parts.

MBHO Germany, or its US distr. MTC-MBHO US is not planning to expand its current OEM business (s.a. capsules) to additional companies, or individuals, such as DIY'ers.

Unfortunately, we made an exception from this policy to an individual who claimed he is in dire need for 2 MBHO capsules for his beloved and defective, and thus useless, NEUMANN vintage microphone. We did make an exception from our policy and sold 2 capsules to this individual.

To learn on this forum that these capsules were never intended to be used as that said replacement capsule in that vintage NEUMANN microphone, and even worse, now have been sold to a third party (JC writes on 7/4/04 on this forum: "Gus, I sold you the MBHO CK12 clone ...") by this individual is a big disappointment and comes to us as a surprise.

To post the sale of this said capsule on a public forum, is an additional ... well, I decline to be judgemental.

In nature, there are species which pretend to be injured, only to attract attention from prospective prey.
In our case it proved to be an effective, but not quite likeable, method of getting where the forum member "JC" wanted to go.

Sincerely, Marcus Demuth, MTC-MBHO US[/quote]
So a group buy is out then?