CE certification

[Rob Flinn]

Hi,

I'm wondering if anyone here has experience in getting CE certification for products ??

I have been looking into this since I have been selling a few one off creations of mine to people, & was wondering what the implications would be if one decided to commercially sell a product ?

I have looked at some sites on the net, but the whole CE certification thing seems like a minefield of bureaucracy, designed to make things more difficult for small businesses.

Any thoughts ? Jakob, TK ....... anyone ???

 

[sonicmook56]

I think it costs a ridiculous amount of money and takes months to get done?

I was under the impression that if you put a CE certified power supply in your box you would be ok?

 

[JohnRoberts]

CE is more harmonized and actually better today than before when every country has their own set of rules and regulations.

These are always a PIA for small companies.

Look out for gotcha's like ROHS, recycling and packaging material rules. They even have (?) rules about mains distortion (PFC).

Test labs that check for UL or CSA conformance can probably help you.

JR

 

[Rob Flinn]

When I was doing some Googling on this is the past, I found that self certification is possible & the cheapest way to do this, but still looks like a PITA.

Maybe you need to be "certified" as clinically insane to even think about doing this.

However as far as I can see it is a legal requirement if you are commercially selling a product in the EU.

 

[bcarso]

Sadly, you do want to do it, as in some cases some governments can even go after you with criminal charges if you are implicated in shipping product into countries for which certification is implied or alleged.

It is not usually sufficient just to have a certified power supply, although using an external adapter with certs will save you money by shortening the time and money associated with a test lab.

I know there are people in audio selling small quantities of gear that decide to go without certs, and as they do so more look at them and figure that it is o.k. I'm not an attorney, but if I were I would advise against.

 

[JohnRoberts]

[quote author="Rob Flinn"]When I was doing some Googling on this is the past, I found that self certification is possible & the cheapest way to do this, but still looks like a PITA.

Maybe you need to be "certified" as clinically insane to even think about doing this.

However as far as I can see it is a legal requirement if you are commercially selling a product in the EU.[/quote]

I think the CE mark is generally self certified as compared to UL that monitors production to insure compliance. The issue is what happens if you are not in compliance.

In general a EU nation will go after the EU importer of a product from outside the market. This does not mean you can or should be cavalier about agency approvals.

I would second Brad's comment, that using an approved 3rd party PS, should be a good way to avoid killing somebody with a safety lapse. ROHS is a PIA but most contract manufacturers have already dealt with the learning curve.

I don't know how vigorously the CE nations are going to pursue a small company back to the US, but if they identify you as outlaw, it could make for some interesting trade shows on their turf.. or product seizures while clearing customs.

When in doubt do what's right. Don't break the law just because you may get away with it.

JR

 

[Rob Flinn]

JohnRoberts
I think the CE mark is generally self certified as compared to UL that monitors production to insure compliance. The issue is what happens if you are not in compliance.

In general a EU nation will go after the EU importer of a product from outside the market. This does not mean you can or should be cavalier about agency approvals.

I would second Brad's comment, that using an approved 3rd party PS, should be a good way to avoid killing somebody with a safety lapse. ROHS is a PIA but most contract manufacturers have already dealt with the learning curve.

I don't know how vigorously the CE nations are going to pursue a small company back to the US, but if they identify you as outlaw, it could make for some interesting trade shows on their turf.. or product seizures while clearing customs.
JR

I really appreciate yours & everyone elses comments, but a 3rd party supply is not an option for me because the pieces of gear in question are all valve based.

Secondly as I'm based in the UK it's not a case of them pursuing me back to the US, if my products didn't comply. Unfortunatley, I'm a bit easier for them to find.

I think what I'm really looking for here is the easiest & cheapest way to ensure compliance. I really appreciate the comments here, but does anyone have actual experience of the certification procedure

 

[JohnRoberts]

There are independent companies that sell their services.

Google turns up over a million hits for my first search "british CE approval"

Some even advertise budgetary pricing like 365 pounds for 90 % of typical cases.

I can't recommend any personally since when I last went through this we had our own in house testing...

If you have multiple similar products it may be cheaper to test them as a group and create a family file. But I am not up on specifics.

JR

 

[EEMO1]

old topic, BUT...


Is it legal, to sell a pre-build custom units with a power supply without these certifications, inside the EU?


Im not really worried about the build quality when looking at some products, but for example how do the insurance companies react to these if something goes south?

 

[Scodiddly]

And my own related question is the same, but for a phantom-powered microphone. What's actually needed, beyond the lead-free which I've already been doing?

 

[abbey road d enfer]

old topic, BUT...


Is it legal, to sell a pre-build custom units with a power supply without these certifications, inside the EU?

You need CE certification if you want to be legal.
I've done a lot of CE self-certification. The person who signs the CE cert is legally accountable for it.
There is a lot of confusion about the CE cert.
You need your equipment to be in accordance with CE60065, which is the low-voltage safety regulation. It's not very complicated, just good practice and good sense. That's all about the fuse(s) protecting the Live conductor, the earthing point, isolation clearance, absence of holes where one could put his fingers or a metal rod and get electric shock, temperature less than 50°C, and so on. You may want to buy the document; that would cost you about 60 quid. It tells you how they test things; you will see that it's not very complicated, in fact most of the test is visual.
The rest is about interference. Your product should not generate interference, either radiated or conducted superior to a specific amount.
Any piece of gear that has no SMPS, high-speed logic or radio-transmitting capability, except power amplifiers passes easily the test.
If one uses a 3rd-party CE-approved SMPS, they must be an idiot not succeeding in test. Just common sense and good practice are needed.
Now, your product should tolerate a certain amount of incoming interference. The worst case is for digital products that actually reset or reboot when submitted to interference, but in most cases, like a purely analog product, you just have to mention in the self-cert file (and in the manual) that performance may be degraded in case of heavy interference.

Im not really worried about the build quality when looking at some products, but for example how do the insurance companies react to these if something goes south?

You don't really need to do the full CE certification for that. (but you need the global CE cert in order to sell your gear) If you're worried about safety, you could have your equipment tested just for CE60065. It's a less costly test than the whole interference shebang.
But if you are confident you have done your homework well, you can do the self-cert.
CE certification was a very traumatic experience in 1992; when you talked to a cert house, they would quote outrageous money and tell you that you had to go through them, which was more or less true for the computer or broadcast industry, but it turned out that it's much easier than you would think. Turned out we had only two pieces of gear tested - one that was the most complex of the mains-powered units and a DI box. We signed the self-cert for the whole catalog on account these two units covered all variations.

 

[[silent:arts]]

EC regulation and CE marking – a brief guide

 

[ruffrecords]

Nice, succinct summary Abbey. Just to be clear, 'legally responsible' means you can go to prison rather than simply be sued into bankruptcy as might happen elsewhere in the world.

Cheers

Ian

 

[ramshackles]

If you are a selling a built module, but that does not have a power supply (such as a 500 series module), it is not completely clear whether it needs to meet either of the directives. I assume the LVD does not apply to it, as we are dealing with, at most, 24V. For the EMC, the following items are exempt:

    components
    electromagnetically benign apparatus
    spare parts
    second hand equipment
    equipment for export and use outside the EEA
    equipment specifically covered by other Directives
    excluded installations

I don't know if you could argue that a built module is a 'component' ?

 

[abbey road d enfer]

If you are a selling a built module, but that does not have a power supply (such as a 500 series module), it is not completely clear whether it needs to meet either of the directives.

You won't be concerned with the LVD (unless you have a high-voltage converter built-in), but you'll have to deal with emissions and interference.

I don't know if you could argue that a built module is a 'component' ?

As the manufacturer, you could, but someone would have to deal with the certification of the finished assembly. In most cases, it's the local distributor or installer, who wants the manufacturer to do it. If you're selling to individuals, that may be doable in principle. I know you can't do that in Korea, for example. The authorities want someone accountable for the final cert.

 

[EEMO1]

my concern is "custom" made units without any of these certifications... Don't want to bust anyones balls, but it concerns me.

 

[abbey road d enfer]

my concern is "custom" made units without any of these certifications... Don't want to bust anyones balls, but it concerns me.

It seems my answer was unambiguous. You want to sell, you have to conform to legislation.
If you sell without cert, someone may ask you for a justification. Better do it preventatively than in the urgency of an investigation.

 

[EEMO1]

I agree.

my concern is "custom" made units without any of these certifications... Don't want to bust anyones balls, but it concerns me.

It seems my answer was unambiguous. You want to sell, you have to conform to legislation.
If you sell without cert, someone may ask you for a justification. Better do it preventatively than in the urgency of an investigation.

 

[emrr]

I take the question to regard one-off custom designs.  Is it reasonable to certify such an item?  Or prohibitive?

 

[JohnRoberts]

It is impractical to invest in formal lab testing for one off, but one or many should be built using proper human safety guidelines.

When in doubt build it right.

JR