Chernobyl

[iomegaman]

As usual the conversation about these things tend to drift into our models of consumption...

Humanity has not matured yet...maturity is when you produce more than you consume...

But then again no mammal species has matured to the level of plant life...that is why in the end we all become plant food...we failed to mature and now nature will make us...

Energy efficiency seems to follow some of the same paths as computer code...when it is critical it is forced to be efficient, when there's lots of ram (money to burn) the code gets bloated...

Windows used to come on floppys...now that its cloud based (someone elses computer) it would take a truckload of floppys and a month to install...bloated beyond reason...but we think it's better in spite of the fact that it basically does exactly the same thing with different bells and whistles...

We don't have "open source energy" because its not a critical need...

Yet.

 

[DaveP]

We had just got back from holiday when the rain containing some of the fall-out started coming down on the car.  This was in the UK.  Later we heard that some farms in north wales would be unable to sell their lambs for about 25 years as for some weird reason it was much worse there.  That farm is now OK apparently :-\

DaveP

 

[cyrano]

How about fusion? Anybody following Andrea Rossi, for instance?

 

[Script]

Funny how we pointed the finger to Moskow for its cover up , but now the Japanese are doing exactly the same

The Japanese are doing what exactly?

 

[living sounds]

The Japanese are doing what exactly?

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-fukushima-workers/special-report-japans-homeless-recruited-for-murky-fukushima-clean-up-idUSBRE9BT00520131230

 

[Tubetec]

I was refering to the tendency to not properly inform the public/ cover up the extent of nuclear accidents . Some of the management of the Japanese reactors are in prison over their actions now .

Limitless amounts of power on tap does nothing to curb our expectations/sense of entitlement  ,
I found a stat recently that said a typical Californian consumes around 400 times what a Bangledeshi person does over their lifetime .

In a sense the technology will do what it wants in the end anyway , its our own personal consumption we need to start addressing. I wonder how many tonnes of waste an Iphoneyx costs the plannet ,how can we add the cost of 'externally' managed/funded civil wars in Africa , Im not sure there is a way of truely measuring the cost ,its all carefuly concealed by 'front' companies who fold like a row of dominos upon inspection .

 

[Script]

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-fukushima-workers/special-report-japans-homeless-recruited-for-murky-fukushima-clean-up-idUSBRE9BT00520131230

That's not a real cover up . It has been common practice in Japan even long before 2011 -- and also in 2013, the year of that article -- to hire people at street corners for dirty work in many branches of industry. It's really common knowledge, at least in Japan. It doesn't make it less of a scandal though ! ! !

The real scandal in Japan consisted of a regulation that said that radioactive substances that leave the premises are no longer the responsibility of said company 😨

The extant of the damages at the plant, the steps they have taken and are taking , and the estimated costs for decommissioning and decontaminating / cleaning up are all pretty well known -- at least in Japan and to the extant it is at all possible to know in advance. And these numbers are astronomical... ...

 

[Script]

Some of the management of the Japanese reactors are in prison over their actions now .

I am not all too familiar with the reasons why they are in prison, but the manager was sacked for giving conflicting accounts of what they did during the critical hours. Basically, at some point, they left the control room and abandoned the plant, which they shouldn't have. But as some witness accounts had also suggested, the plant was 'lost' even before the tsunami hit -- lost for damages only from the quake (broken tubes, steam coming out at several critical points). All problems that happened because the plant had been poorly maintained for years. It had long been scheduled to go offline later in 2011. Another real scandal -- and a real tragedy to boot.

Another little known fact is that another plant, much closer to Tokyo had also almost blown up. Only ONE of several diesel generators needed for cooling had barely survived the tsunami. That was a real close one.

On a different note, the government had indeed stopped publishing real-time cross-country data (Speedy) on radioactivity. And they did for a good reason. Then-Prime Minister Naoto Kan had had the evacuation plan for Tokyo on his desk but decided against enacting it. Imagine M35+ people jumping off their sofas trying to leave the metropolis in panic all at the same time. Better to tell people to stay indoors by all means, close their windows, and turn of their ACs... ... and I am not being cynical here.

 

[Script]

A true scandal however was that the international community, Europe above all, insisted that Japan adjusted the legal limit for radioactive contamination in food. This made it sound as if Japan was somewhat lax about it all.

But the opposite was the case. Japan had much stricter legal limits than most other countries. Meaning:. contaminated foodstuff that was illegal to sell in Japan could still be exported and sold all over Europe for example. That's why Europe insisted the Japanese adjusted their legal limit UPWARD ! ,! ! Thanks for that

 

[Script]

But it's true, there had been a long history of cover-ups concerning minor accidents at nuclear power plants all over Japan prior to 2011.

But it seems that is no longer.

 

[living sounds]

I wonder how many tonnes of waste an Iphoneyx costs the plannet ,how can we add the cost of 'externally' managed/funded civil wars in Africa , Im not sure there is a way of truely measuring the cost ,its all carefuly concealed by 'front' companies who fold like a row of dominos upon inspection .

Apple actually posts statistics on CO2 consumption for their products:

https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-iphone-x-environmental-report/