It is saturated but mine cleans up pretty good with my guitar volume. Or at least tucks into the mix with volume and picking attack changes.
Last edited:
Clipping Diode Shootout
- Thread starter CJ
- Start date
Help Support GroupDIY Audio Forum:
I do notice that an effect will sound great when playing by yourself and then at band practice it disappears so you crank it and everybody complains as mentioned above, so the final test is to use it with the band. Yeah if you dime the gain on these clippers you get that harsh hi end fizz
The Cornish take on the Distortion + has a lot of character we will see how that sounds with the band.
The Cornish take on the Distortion + has a lot of character we will see how that sounds with the band.
Being totally honest, I don't see any use for heating a diode or cooling to watch the trace change, it doesn't make any sense to me.
I want to measure the curve at room temperature and that's it. It will not heat or cool inside the pedal.
I also want to be able to import the measurement values of the curve trace so I insert them in a spreadsheet and have a graph where I can compare all the different diodes and compare mine to the curve tracing of the diodes used in the original Klon (KTR in my graph).
So a scope or live trace is not useful at all for comparison, you had to post 12 photos of a curve for each diode where isn't even easy to compare them, I posted 1 photo a graph plotting all the Diodes, CJ did by hand but it was also 1 photo with all of them, and that's it.
The Peak DCA75 is still the best device
Last edited:
soapfoot
Well-known member
Most of the time! But some germanium semiconductors will sound noticeably different in a pedal at different temperatures.
Take something like a Mk I Tone Bender to a hot outdoor festival gig under lights vs. climate-controlled studio, and the difference is often not subtle!
I can't say I've noticed the same thing with diodes in a diode-clipping pedal, but I wouldn't rule it out
As soapfoot notes, changes in Ge transistors can be pretty substantial within normal playing situations. I see the difference when I measure transistors in the winter (room temp. about 65 degrees F) vs. summer (around 75-78 degrees F.) However, I was inspired by a comment from CJ to measure a diode at room temp vs. a diode heated between my fingers for a couple of minutes, and I saw minimal difference. Vf might move .02 volts, but not much more--and the curve graphed by the DCA75 looked identical, just slightly shifted. I didn't do any listening tests, but I doubt it would make a sizable difference.
Last edited:
AnalogPackrat
Well-known member
Mine doesn't clean up without getting pretty thin. I don't remember all the details, but I think I used moderate hfe Si for Q1 and Q2 and Ge for Q3. I added a bias control that I think is on Q3. It really kills for thick, heavy doom down to moderately fuzzy. I've got build notes in a box somewhere.
At the time I was trying to achieve this kind of tone:
AnalogPackrat
Well-known member
Depends on the application. Same with frequency.
Yeah, automation is great sometimes.
Opinions differ, I guess. For distortion diodes your ears should be the final arbiter, not your eyes anyway.
I remember when Peak first started making their testers. They are pretty cool. But I could get a 4 channel Rigol scope for ~2x the price and do a whole lot more if I needed data capture and automation. But for me "best" these days is usually what's on my bench when I want to do something.
Flatpicker
Well-known member
Great thread! While watching the deep dive video on YT I noticed this one in the sidebar. Very telling and also parallels most of my own experiences.
That sounds pretty traditional with your volume all the way up into a variety of fuzz pedals.
I used all germanium transistors with hfe gain around 60 to 70. I played different transistor but the main thing was getting low leakage. This made the volume of guitar and touch sensitivity have a better feel. I think I was looking more for Hendrix and Page sound. The 3 tranny Tonebender is easier on finding transistors with lower hfe that work right. FF requires more selective transistors with higher hfe and low leakage IMO.
When I would adjust the EQ on something like a TS I would have the person come to the house with the guitar(s) and amp(s) they used and have them play a stage level. I would then adjust the HPF, LPF and gain.
FWIW I heard one setup with a real Klon it was 70s strat and Brown tolex deluxe. The three sounded great when used together other guitars and amps were not as good with that Klon they were still good sounding IMO. This was tested at stage level volumes.
I don't understand the TS stuff most of them sound the same when good tants or films are used at the .22uf places and electros are changed for better ones in a TS 7 or TS 5(the stock sounded OK it was more that they looked like they were realy cheap. the caps where changed because the people(friends) are pros)). Something else that is good to do is to add lockwashers to the jacks or use something like loctite blue.
I like how the TS7 is built with how the controls can be recessed after being adjusted.
I did hear one 808 that did sound different as best I could tell it was from the unmarked blue .22uf tants . You would not hear the change on stage.
I like treble boosts like the rangemaster I sometime build treble boosts with a med power Si like a TIP29 with adjustable bias and selectable input caps.
I also like the bluesbreaker and lovetone brown source.
Interesting thing with clipping diodes is that you can sometimes make different clipping voltage diodes sound close by adjusting the gain and adjusting the volume.
IMO the D+ seems to work better with a 741 if you can find a low noise one.
Here’s a video I made a few years back, comparing different diodes for a distorted guitar tone.
Chasing Diodes
Chasing Diodes
Nice video! I like those russian fets,
i had that korean amp, it was a Gorilla, same board, loved the sound, bought it for 15 bucks,
got a tube bender going on, which is guess what, thats right a cross between this and that.
Dan Coggins of Dinosaural (and formerly of Lovetone)
https://aionfx.com/app/files/docs/wyvern_documentation.pdf
i had that korean amp, it was a Gorilla, same board, loved the sound, bought it for 15 bucks,
got a tube bender going on, which is guess what, thats right a cross between this and that.
Dan Coggins of Dinosaural (and formerly of Lovetone)
https://aionfx.com/app/files/docs/wyvern_documentation.pdf
its a disease,
We all know that, but that's not what we were discussing here, we were curve tracing Diodes and compare the different traces between them.
In Outdoor festival gigs the lights are LEDs, those don't increase the temperature, it used to happen back in the day when conventional lighting was used, but thats long obsolete in Live Festivals (I'm talking about a proper festival).
Outdoor gig during the afternoon in a very hot summer day, yes. But it's not something you can't control, Germanium transistors are that way, variations in temperature will change the sound of your fuzz box.
Anyway, whats been said is that a Live Trace on a scope had advantages over curve tracing for comparing didoes because you "could heat or cool the device and watch the trace change" and I don't think that's useful at all for the purpose here, where we were having fun comparing diodes.
But I can totally see the usefulness of the hand drawn graph that CJ made and posted and also the graph I posted.
AnalogPackrat
Well-known member
The topic is clipping diodes for distortion boxes. Curve tracing is one thing to look at, but the sound in an actual circuit is what matters.
This is exactly the scenario you can't control. Outdoors in the sun. Or in hot crowded room on a summer night.
You can also curve trace transistor junctions and observe the same effects live as you vary the temp. It is educational to observe such phenomena. I recall a sophomore level lab where this was one of the experiments. It was used to illustrate some of the important device characteristic differences between Ge and Si devices.
Sure. Nothing using an oscilloscope has value.
I just had a brainstorm for a little circuit to make live comparative traces. If I can find time I might build it. Good day.
No, it was not.
This side discussion started on a quote you made of my comment recommending the DCA75 to CJ for the sole purpose of plotting the curve trace of diodes to be able to compare their curves. That was the topic of my message to CJ and that was the topic being discussed at that point in the thread.
Anyway you completely missed the point of what I said and advised, and there’s no need to hijack this thread when this is just a small detail of what’s being discussed and shared in this nice thread, so I will leave it here
Last edited:
My Klon Klone. My favorite thing about it is the painting my wife did. She loves horses.
I read back about someone loving the sound of these with a brown deluxe. I’m going to try that today. This one has 1n34 that I got from a close down tv repair shop at least 15 years ago. That doesn’t mean much after reading this tread. I’ve felt this thing might be best for live use in a band more so than noodling on guitar at home.
I read back about someone loving the sound of these with a brown deluxe. I’m going to try that today. This one has 1n34 that I got from a close down tv repair shop at least 15 years ago. That doesn’t mean much after reading this tread. I’ve felt this thing might be best for live use in a band more so than noodling on guitar at home.
Attachments
Nice Paint, looks great
