component inflation???

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dmp

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 28, 2009
Messages
3,855
Location
Madison, WI
Has anybody else noticed the steep rise in component prices over the past few years (resistors, capacitors, etc)?
I keep all my past parts orders in a spreadsheet and I've been noticing when I go back and order parts from a year or so ago, the prices are much higher.
I just did an average for components I'm ordering for a ez1290 preamp - all from Mouser. Average increase: 134%  !!!!
The CPI shows a 2% change in buying power since 2011.
And prices at digikey / newark are similar, so it isn't an isolated vendor.
What is going on? Any ideas?
 
Didn't you hear there's no inflation.  The Fed said so.  Or I read it on the internet.  Just ignore the man behind the curtain.
 
Mouser is usually up in the online order quote versus the current catalog quote, many cases way up.  Almost all commodities are way up.  Pre-stocking electronics parts and metalwork is better than money in the bank, or stock market, ignoring property tax impact.    I hear groceries in the USA are up something like 12% a year for almost a decade running; that's obscured by farm bill price controls shielding us from actuals. 
 
I can't say I've noticed consumer electronics increasing by >100% in the past years. Why not, if component prices have been climbing so steeply?
I can't say I've noticed 12% / year in groceries. That would mean a $1 item in 2002 is $3 today.
Or are you saying actual prices haven't been rising due to increased subsidies?
Even a gallon of gas hasn't been going up that fast.
 
Inflation?

All of the real, and virtual money printing (like quantitative easing)  that has been going on for several years now puts upward pressure on hard asset prices.

While the central bankers are trying to fill in the hole created by the collapse of home value when that credit bubble collapsed, there is no sensible way to make all those people whole, without taking that wealth from people that did not participate in the bubble. Inflation is a tax on savers that benefits debt holders and spenders. 

it seems the politicians really believe their own BS as they argue the job benefit of temporary government stimulus spending. You can't fill the well by priming the pump.  We will not dig ourselves out of this slump and increasing deficit without >4% "Private economy" growth. Growing the public sector is just a sea anchor that reduces our total national wealth.

At the moment I am noticing a strengthening dollar, which is somewhat a consequence of other central banks cranking up their easing, similar to the beggar thy neighbor currency devaluations back in the '30s. Even Switzerland is printing money, and Japan is actively driving down the Yen to help their exports.

Today with the more tightly linked economies, these central bank moves are less effective. One talking head on TV observed that this international easing is fungible, so the inflation is not limited just to a few nations.

At some point we need to man up and shift out of crisis mode, take our short term medicine to withdraw the sugar high from government borrowing and spending, and free up the private sector to start growing. We have a huge opportunity to develop our new found energy resources (we can become a net energy exporter and that would help our trade balance and dependance on the middle east). Our tax code is past due to clean out the crony capitalism tax breaks and promote growth for smaller and mid size businesses.

If we want to reduce all the money buying influence on politics, remove the honey pot that attracts the money. If we reduce the invasive regulation that big business lobbies to game for their own advantage, and reduce the out of control spending that attracts all the suckling pigs to DC, there will be less influence to buy. We can't legislate against people acting in their self interest, but we can remove/reduce the prize they are chasing after.

Still far from resolved is the issue of rising health care costs. Replacing a broken single payer insurance system with a single payer government system, does not address the fundamental problems. Spreading the costs to make younger/healthy people pay for older/sicker people will reveal itself as flawed soon enough (within next couple years). We can't fix this until enough people realize, that it isn't fixed yet... (I sure wish I was wrong.)

Back on topic, I've noticed a faster/higher increase in shipping costs. The parts cost for modern SMD seems reasonable, while I haven't made major buys in last year or so. Processor families keep getting more powerful faster than costs increase.

JR
 
PS: yes wages have been increasing in China. They just celebrated their New year's a major travel holiday for them when migrant workers return home for the week. I've seen reports of as many as 25% of workers in some factories not returning, mainly over dissatisfaction with pay. Hon Hai one of the big dog contract manufacturers has started a hiring freeze because apparently they got back more than they expected. Hon Hai has been pretty aggressive about increasing worker pay for the last several years.
 
emrr said:
Mouser is usually up in the online order quote versus the current catalog quote, many cases way up.  Almost all commodities are way up.  Pre-stocking electronics parts and metalwork is better than money in the bank, or stock market, ignoring property tax impact.    I hear groceries in the USA are up something like 12% a year for almost a decade running; that's obscured by farm bill price controls shielding us from actuals.
maybe it's all the free 2nd day air shipping that mouser gives away...  :eek:

Groceries have not gone up 12% annually across the board while I have seen isolated price distortions (often due to government involvement). One grocery price I've tracked for several years is 1# of store brand generic canned corn. Before the ethanol mandate, this can of corn was $0.33, after ethanol it popped almost over night to $0.66, since then it has crept up onto the Low $0.70 range.  This is the largest pop I've seen and actually paid close attention to. This increase in corn cost has rippled through the entire animal feed sector, increasing beef prices (not a double, but higher).

An interesting consequence of asset inflation is that farmland prices have increased dramatically which will also put some upward pressure on crop prices.  I haven't been paying close attention to trends in temporary farm labor, I seem to recall some discussing of raising age threshold preventing some children from participating in farm work. 

Slow gradual inflation is often hard to perceive, and the central banks are still arguing that deflation is a threat. When they withdraw monetary easing the currencies will strengthen making imported goods (like electronic components) more expensive. This need for central banks to coordinate is why they hold these G_XX meetings. What was notable about last meeting was what they didn't say about Japan opening the spigot, in effect endorsing the easing.

Farming and agriculture is probably a pretty good investment these days.

JR
 
gunpoint recording said:
Same with gas prices.  Its not that the prices are going up,  its that the dollar is going down.

International oil sales are mostly denominated in US dollars, except for the oil Iran is illegally exporting for gold. Dollar strength (trend at this moment ) should drop international price for raw oil, but in US the pump price is high because of refinery shutdowns and limited capacity. There are multiple special blends for different regions, and the regulatory burden is so high that nobody in their right mind would build a new refinery, so this is yet another self (govt) inflicted wound.  Seasonal blend switchovers and maintenance shut downs can cause short term shortages and price spikes.

It could improve with a more sensible energy policy but that could take another election cycle or more.

JR
 
Wow, lots of opinions.
Here's average gas price at the pump plotted along with oil/barrel cost for the last eight years.
I don't see a significant difference in the trends.
Nothing like 134% inflation.
If this were inflation caused by changes in the fed policy it would be picked up more broadly across the economy.

What should we look up next?
The dollar vs. yen? Most electrical components probably come from China, but I still don't understand why consumer electronics aren't increasing in price by 134%, since they also mostly come from China.

It is amazing how we can research this stuff with a few clicks on the keyboard  - what an amazing thing - such a wealth of fact & knowledge available at your fingertips.
Reminds me of the joke: what would be the hardest thing for a person to understand who lived in the 19th century about life today?
That people have a handheld device in their pocket with the knowledge of nearly all human civilization and they use it to argue with strangers and look at pictures of cats.
 

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I couldn't find a pretty graph but Chinese govt has raised minimum wage 15-25% a year, for last three years .  Not every factory worker in China is making minimum wage but wages have been rising there for years, this is in combination with Chinese currency strengthening
BF-AD563_YUAN_D_20120929000005.jpg

which makes chinese components cost more in US Dollars.

Some US manufacturers are even moving work back from China.

JR



 
dmp said:
So no one else suspects collusion between the vendors?

Component pricing at DIY levels is dominated by the distributor, not the manufacturer.
HAve a look at Octopart some time for a part you want to buy, there's a large variance in single and low volume pricing from disty to disty.
 
Rochey said:
dmp said:
So no one else suspects collusion between the vendors?

Component pricing at DIY levels is dominated by the distributor, not the manufacturer.
HAve a look at Octopart some time for a part you want to buy, there's a large variance in single and low volume pricing from disty to disty.
+1  no funny business. I suspect these distributors have a love/hate relationship with hobbyists. While Rat Shack was set up to service hobbyists, Digikey and Mouser tolerate small orders because they want to lock into small businesses so they can have a leg up  when these small companies become large companies.
====
I saw a huge difference when I shifted from being a small company buying through distribution, and working at Peavey where the capacitor company sends their company jet to fly us to Mexico to visit their factory down there ... Pretty sweet treatment when you are buying millions of each individual cap value. I recall using over 1M in4148 diodes per month.

Now back to being a small fish buying through distribution, but I get why it is what it is... No conspiracy or secret club, it's just bidness...

It cost the same labor to sell you a SMD capacitor with real cost < $0.01 and SMD DSP processor costing a few bucks... Things like small passive components are hardly worth picking up off the floor (If you could actually see them to pick them up).

But add a $15 shipping charge and that $0.25 worth of parts gets really expensive.

JR

 
The only place I see really consistent and heavy price increases is in NOS tubes.

On average, across the tube types we use in our products (naa, we don't use new production types anywhere yet), I see price approximately doubling every two years.

Jakob E.
 
true dat.

23 bucks for a 5Y3gt rectifier at Antique Electronic!!

used to be $3.75!

i ordered a bunch of stuff using a 2006 catalog, the guy does not tell me the price, all he says is "in stock" next item please...

i get the invoice and almost hurl chunks,  :-\


 
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