conspiracy theories

[gltech]

Scum of the earth regarding the internet.

 

[living sounds]

Sometimes, it isn't a coincidence.

A while ago, I needed a FB code for developers. Of course, can't get one without a FB account. So I created one. No pic, no info, no real name. Of course, the email address was correct, as it doesn't seem to work with one of the throw-away email services. I have NO FB friends, no events, just a membership of a few audio related groups. And even those are read-only. Only about a dozen people ever got suggested as friends that I really know. All of them have a FB account, obviously and none of them has much sense when it comes to privacy. I didn't "connect".

Fast forward a year or so. Discovered a nice pub while out magnet fishing and drone flying with my son on a sunny Sunday afternoon. The same night, that pub shows up in my friends suggestion list on FB.

Mind you, I haven't got a FB app on my iphone and I didn't use my iphone that afternoon. But even if you don't use it, your location obviously gets reported to FB.

I' wrecked my brain for a few days wondering how this was possible..

So I installed a filtering VPN and, lo and behold. Almost every app on iOS comes with one or more trackers built in. Some of the companies behind these trackers are open about it. Some don't even have a website. Up 'till now, the filter caught about 45 different trackers.

The filtering VPN, called Guardian isn't publicly available yet, but it will be in a few weeks.

Names of these trackers:
Amplitude
AppsFlyer
InMobi
Flurry
App Measurement
MoPub
AppLovin
AppNexus
OpenX
Scorecard Research
...

I do have a few apps that are data collectors themselves, like Shazam. Shazam was recently acquired by Apple and contains yet another tracker: Chartbeat.

And I don't even have 45 apps on my phone, so some obviously have several trackers...

Wow, thanks for that information. ios was supposed to be better than Android wrt to privacy...

 

[cyrano]

It is.

But only in this way: Apple doesn't sell any of the collected data. Google is in the business of selling data.

Once you go to the app level, it's the wild west out there. And we are paertially to blame. Nobody reads EULA's, so they get away with it. Although some will be hit by GDPR. The first fines are coming in:

http://www.enforcementtracker.com/

I suppose Apple and Google will be confronted with some fine too, sooner or later.

 

[living sounds]

And we are paertially to blame. Nobody reads EULA's, so they get away with it.

Nobody (except for lawyers and judges) should have to read EULAs. Business models that rely on collecting personal consumer data should be outlawed, IMHO.

 

[kambo]

Nobody (except for lawyers and judges) should have to read EULAs. Business models that rely on collecting personal consumer data should be outlawed, IMHO.

+1

 

[JohnRoberts]

It is.

But only in this way: Apple doesn't sell any of the collected data. Google is in the business of selling data.

There is no free lunch, with Google the customers performing searches are the product, Apple just uses a different angle as they shift to a services subscription business model. Apple also monetizes their customer base by skimming a fat percentage of sales made through their app store.

Once you go to the app level, it's the wild west out there. And we are paertially to blame. Nobody reads EULA's, so they get away with it. Although some will be hit by GDPR. The first fines are coming in:

http://www.enforcementtracker.com/

I suppose Apple and Google will be confronted with some fine too, sooner or later.

Don't forget facebook who is all but begging to be regulated (please don't throw me in the briar patch.  : ).

I suspect they all have huge piles of cash set aside to pay government fines that are all but a done deal after (swamp) monkey see EU doing it, (swamp) monkey will surely do it.

JR

 

[cyrano]

Nobody (except for lawyers and judges) should have to read EULAs. Business models that rely on collecting personal consumer data should be outlawed, IMHO.

I agree.

There have been a few courts ruling against EULAs worldwide, but a few major players still consider a EULA to be a binding contract.

I've had a EULA for a site I used to run that required any visitor to surrender whatever money they had to me, just for reading the page. In almost ten years, nobody complained...

Kind of shows the current situation.

 

[cyrano]

There is no free lunch, with Google the customers performing searches are the product, Apple just uses a different angle as they shift to a services subscription business model. Apple also monetizes their customer base by skimming a fat percentage of sales made through their app store.

Apple knows the value of data all too well. That's why they're not selling any to anyone. It's not because they are concerned about our privacy. Still, it's better for us than what Google does. But then, a lot of Google's services are free.

Don't forget facebook who is all but begging to be regulated (please don't throw me in the briar patch.  : ).

You betcha. I'm not forgetting FB. But it's a different story. Gossip is the prostitution of conversation. And that's what FB is doing. Low value data and once the buyers find out, FB is done. Of course, they've amassed a mountain of money meanwhile, so they'll be around for a while.

Remember MySpace? They seem to have "lost" all their older data. There's a rumour they couldn't afford to pay for the storage any longer.

I suspect they all have huge piles of cash set aside to pay government fines that are all but a done deal after (swamp) monkey see EU doing it, (swamp) monkey will surely do it.

I'm pretty certain the EU is going after some lesser known targets too. And as long as fines are proportional to turnover, they'll hurt even the ones with money mountains.

 

[living sounds]

I agree.

There have been a few courts ruling against EULAs worldwide, but a few major players still consider a EULA to be a binding contract.

I've had a EULA for a site I used to run that required any visitor to surrender whatever money they had to me, just for reading the page. In almost ten years, nobody complained...

Kind of shows the current situation.

In Germany there are rather stringent legal limitations regarding what you can and cannot put in fine-print. These rules have been adopted within the EU to varying degrees since the early 90s, but full harmonisation is still being debated.

Nobody would have to complain against your rule about surrendering money, since it would be void prima facie. ;-)

 

[cyrano]

I wasn't expecting someone to take me to court, but send a mail maybe.

But then the EULA page only had a few dozen visitors after years, despite being linked in the footer of every page...

This was on a site that had up to 60.000 individual visitors monthly, not counting bots.

 

[kambo]

OMG, went through my iphone, ton of application gathering ton of information about you edit "me"...
btw, they say they are not selling any info, but at Flint Water Case in US, test results were getting modified pretty easy... (Michael Moore 11/9 documentary, last quarter)
you think i am gonna take their words for it 

 

[Tubetec]

Resistance is futile earthling ,we know what you had for breakfeast  ;D

 

[kambo]

Resistance is futile earthling ,we know what you had for breakfeast  ;D

terminator coming out soon... i made some sound design for its trailers

 

[JohnRoberts]

Apple knows the value of data all too well. That's why they're not selling any to anyone. It's not because they are concerned about our privacy. Still, it's better for us than what Google does. But then, a lot of Google's services are free.

Big tech understands the marketing worth of "privacy" to brands. Apple positions itself as holier than thou regarding privacy while selling apps through its app store that blatantly collect personal data.  The news is riddled with examples of privacy violations in apps. One perverse child's app was collecting data about everything the child looked at, and sending it back to the mother ship. 

For now apple can claim that their hands are clean..... for now.

JR

You betcha. I'm not forgetting FB. But it's a different story. Gossip is the prostitution of conversation. And that's what FB is doing. Low value data and once the buyers find out, FB is done. Of course, they've amassed a mountain of money meanwhile, so they'll be around for a while.

Remember MySpace? They seem to have "lost" all their older data. There's a rumour they couldn't afford to pay for the storage any longer.

I'm pretty certain the EU is going after some lesser known targets too. And as long as fines are proportional to turnover, they'll hurt even the ones with money mountains.