DECT phone health issues

[lassoharp]

Just came across this video and must say that it's results do not sound good.  We've had 2.4GHz DECT phones in our house for about 6 years now and I have experienced bouts of a very uncomfortable irregular heartbeat for a number of years and have even seen a doctor about it.  The phone sits at the foot of my bed and the heartbeat problems sometimes make it difficult to fall asleep. I'd never suspected or even heard of this possible effect of DECT phones until this evening. 

I realize there's lots of controversial opinions on this subject and I'm not addressing WiFi towers, cell phones,  dying trees, and the politics of Green issues.  Just looking at what is shown in the video and curious if anyone has any direct experience with possible sensitivity to DECT phones they'd like to share.  My issues could entirely be something else but it seems worth considering.

I took most of what has been discussed in the news regarding RF health issues with a grain of salt and skepticism.  The air has been full of RF 24-7 since the 1920s.  As usual it can be difficult separating the wheat from the chaff in this Internet-fast track information-disinformation age we live in. That often upsets me more than a possible sensitivity to my phone base. 


http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread573955/pg1


An alternate view though not addressing DECT phones in close proximity


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/6583815.stm 

 

[PRR]

I don't quite get why the base station is radiating when nothing is happening? It should passively listen for line-ring OR handset wake-up. Radiation leakage from a receiver should be quite small.

You could move the base station to the other side of the house. You'd have to charge over there then bring it to bed if you expect midnight callers.

You could ask your housemate to plug/unplug the base each night, randomly, without telling you, but logged. Log your own obsevations. After a week, compare.

Wired phones and phone-wire still exist. The standby radiation from a Bell 500 or most cheap junk is a miniscule DC field, weaker than a refer magnet.

 

[lassoharp]

Here is another article that seems to be saying the emissions are constant and at max power.

http://www.i-sis.org.uk/cordlessPhonesBrainTumours.php


I'm still trying to catch up on all of this.  It appears they were calling for a ban or tighter restrictions in Europe but I haven't found anything similar for the US.

Another article is suggesting that maybe older generation units did not power down and there was call for units that did when not in use.

http://www.twice.com/article/263364-Study_Raises_Questions_On_DECT_Phone_Safety.php

I looked for any relevant info on our Uniden 2.4GHz but could find nothing so I sent an email to see what they had to say.

I'm going to pull out the old corded phones for the time being and see if I notice any difference.  Then plug the DECTs back up after a few weeks and see what happens.  My gut tells me there's probably some level of desensitization going on that's built up over time like spending months away from a computer screen then going back and feeling zonked after only 10 minutes.

 

[sodderboy]

The ol' off-tuned analog AM radio as RF detector would do the trick here.  See if there is any real field there.  I did that with my DECT 6.0 from the Shack and it is dark until I pick it up.  Then the field is quite weak 1 foot out.
Mike

 

[living sounds]

DECT base stations were indeed radiating at maximum output all the time. Current generation devices should ideally reduce the lenght of bursts (down to a quarter) when the phone is not in use, but the amplitude of each burst is always at maximum output. There are so called "eco-DECT" phones, which stop output while the phone is physically connected to (=lying on) the base station.


However, the question is whether there is an actual phenomenom. In the video they talk about a stuy without giving actual citations. If there was a study we don't know about its quality and design. Was it really a placebo controlled double blind study? Scientists have been fooled and fooled themselves before, espcially when the placebo effect comes into play. Studies documenting the alleged health risks of mobil phones have been manipulated in the past. There are true believers out there seeking confimation for their biases. In science a single study is not enough. It needs to be replicated several times by others first to give it significant weight. It's not as if this were a difficult or costly study to do, heart rate monitoring is easily availible and so are the phones. Also, it seems kind of strange that this hasn't been shown before.


With all that said, the possibility for harm should not be ruled out. The Federal Office for Radiation Protection here in Germany has advised people to not stay in close proximity of the base station, and I keep mine as far away as I can for 10 years or so now. The idea that the kind of pulsed radition emmited by the phones may potentially be harmful is pretty old news. So if the alleged studies claims can be replicated we need to find out how close is too close, or if the technology should be abandoned altogether.

BTW, I don't think I've ever experienced any effect from being close to a DECT station. Certainly not in the veins of a flight-or-fight response and doubled heart rates. Irregular heartbeat can be caused by various conditions and were certainly not unheard of in earlier, DECT-free, times. But I would try and switch if off at night and see if the irregularities go away.

 

[thermionic]

I've now changed to another set (also a DECT, I suspect), but when I wanted to demo gear to clients - up until a few weeks back when I changed the set - I used to have to turn my BT cordless station off. It created a 'throbbing', sawtooth-like tone on the speaker. The closer I put any low-level / high-gain gear near it, the stronger it picked it up. I'd hazard a guess and say the tone was akin to a 300 Hz sawtooth, pulsating at 4 or 5 Hz.

Anyway - I was pretty annoyed that a mainstream phone supplier could sell something so abundant with RFI issues. It took a while for me to twig that the BT phone was the culprit. I guess the big OEMs don't really worry - they can afford the fine - *if* the authorities have funding to chase them.

Justin

 

[Ptownkid]

You'd think that a bunch of doctors would know how to spell "pedal" correctly...

 

[PRR]

> Was it really a placebo controlled double blind study?

The YouTube video on the abovetopsecret page shows a dummy "sham" wall-outlet and cartoon blinders on subject and experimenter, with annoymous data sent to an evaluator. Start near 1:25--

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EI9fZX4iww

The first data-set "Colorado 25 subjects" is NOT from the lab but self-reported by the subjects. Interesting but not test-based.

My question was: could subjects "hear" (audible, LED, or RF) the active unit and, having just been quizzed about RF-induced upset, react to it from subliminal tension and fear.

The first subject chart shows no effect (68/66), the second one shows a BIG effect (like double heart rate), and apparently VERY quick to rise AND fall.

The rapid fall suggests this is not a high-brain function: it takes time to calm after panic. Rather more like direct tickling of heart or low-brain nerves.

Even if you find the full formal report, you may not be able to spot any failure of blindness, you had to be there. If lassoharp won't try self-experimentation with an honest but devious partner, we may have to wait for some other experimenter to try it making different mistakes-of-blindness and see if there is a trend.