Delay Compensation Amount Error in Pro Tools 2023.3

[andYz00m]

Hey there, having an issue using the new apple silicon protools build 2023.3 with apple silicon UAD on a Mac Studio running the latest Ventura (13.4). Stoked on this new machine, everything is running very fast and smooth. I know this is new software on new hardware.

In the past, pro tools delay compensation has worked fine automatically with Apollo when using hardware inserts but with this new setup, delay compensation is working (showing in mix view and delaying a certain number of samples) BUT there is an audible phase issue.

Test case: When I have two identical audio tracks playing at the same time to the same output, one with hardware insert and one without, there is an audible phase issue indicating incorrect amount of delay between the two, even though the insert does trigger delay compensation on the track. I’m testing this with just a direct patch cable from output to input. No outboard.

I have the channel muted in console etc, I’ve troubleshooted all the basic stuff. can’t figure out what might be causing this.

Buffer is 512, 48K sample, Burl bomber as clock. I’ve tried different buffers and input delay in console as well as a couple of other things, all yield different flavors of phase issues.

Any ideas where to look? Anyone know how I ensure PT is delaying the proper amount for my interface and settings? There are essentially zero settings in PT for tweaking this stuff. Thanks!

I posted this in the Avid forums as well.

 

[scott2000]

Kinda random injection on the topic..... but 5 minutes in is a cool method...

 

[andYz00m]

Kinda random injection on the topic..... but 5 minutes in is a cool method...

LOL, "latency compensation never fuckin works"

It usually does though!

There is a manual insert latency adjustment in PT but what im trying to figure out is what changed/what could be causing this.

 

[ruairioflaherty]

My experience across many versions of Pro Tools is that it cannot be trusted, I've seen it go wrong in many different ways. I would never depend on it to delay compensate something like a hardware insert in parallel.

 

[andYz00m]

My experience across many versions of Pro Tools is that it cannot be trusted, I've seen it go wrong in many different ways. I would never depend on it to delay compensate something like a hardware insert in parallel.

I’m realizing this may be the case. What is your strategy to mitigate this?

 

[john12ax7]

Are there new Apollo drivers you can install? How does the Apolo show up in Pro Tools? Sometimes 3rd party interfaces can have issues when Avid changes things, then the manufacturer needs to update the drivers and things work again.

 

[andYz00m]

It’s all the latest stuff but they have just recently added support for apple silicon so it’s possible it’s related to that.

I’m finding success with manual delay adjustment but it’s quite annoying! Another reason the “industry standard” is maybe not living up to its status…

 

[ruairioflaherty]

I’m realizing this may be the case. What is your strategy to mitigate this?

I switched to compensating manually when it mattered. But I've since moved to another DAW.

I'm full-time mastering now and hear about delay comp issues from mixer friends all the time.

 

[iomegaman]

I've used THIS in the past and ProTools and apps never seemed to agree...
I've also noticed that ProTools has had issues in the past with Apple Silicone and reporting stuff (memory usage was way wrong at one point)...obviously its a PITA to try and figure out RTL but hopefully once you get an accurate measurement you can use something to keep them in phase, at least on the master bus...

Or maybe just use one of these until it sounds right...

 

[jeremynothman]

Isn’t there the hardware delay compensation dialogue in the IO/Bus Setup? Sometimes you need to set these RTLs manually first. It depends on how the converters are reporting to protools.

 

[andYz00m]

I got it working now. Basically had to calculate total RTL with my sample rate and then add a manual amount of samples to each insert path based on the difference between what protools thought was the delay comp and what the actual RTL was.

Very annoying but all in all took me 30 mins and now it’s working great.

Thanks for the thoughts!

 

[jeremynothman]

This is exactly how I remember it for non official HD Interfaces.

The real problem is that this can be a different time for different sample rates

 

[Roxxy]

Jep. It is how you need to handle hardware inserts. And it needs recalculation for every sample rate and buffer size, but once know the values for your interface it is fixed. However do not forget when switching between sessions and different rates to change them. Unfortunately not possible faster :-/