discrete pots where and why?

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12afael

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a lot of mic pres have discrete resistors with rotatory switch instead of pots.
my question is, where I can get better responce with the use of this kind of pots, gain control, volume , filters ?

i´m designing a mic pre with some ssm2166 it don´t pretend to be a expensive and complicate mic but I want to get the best sound that I can get.
i´m not sure if use pots or switchs and resistors
 
hey that give me a new way of view.
1. allow repeatable settings (if you need to redo a singer's vocals in just one section of a song, and you need the gain to be at the exact same levels next time)

I know that sometimes the pots change their frecuency response with the position (I make a couple guitar tube amps)
 
I think in a tube guitar amp that's usually because the impedances are pretty high and the capacitance of the next tube vs. the impedance of the pot act as a filter. I think if you soldered two resistors where that pot was you'd get the same frequency response shift vs. gain.

buttachunk's response is right on the money. I was in that situation just a few moments ago in the studio. A singer/guitarist came by to do a couple of songs and getting levels is great with stepped gain controls. I just need to read the sheets from the last time she recorded, and dial them in. Exactly what I need when the best take is the warmup.

One other reason for stepped gain controls is stereo pair matching.
 
conductive plastic pots are generally 5%-10%

Well, there are other 'quality' issues to do with pots in this configuration. If you want your mic amp (assuming the usual 2 transistor configuration, with a pot between the emitters, rather than an attenuator - which does have similar problems) to have say 60dB (1000x) gain range (hard to achieve), then you need a rev-log pot of (say) 10k, with a 10R end-stop resistor.

Ok, fine, but in practice, there is a hop-on, hop-off resistance step as the wiper reaches the end metallisation on the track, and if this sudden resistance change exceeds 10R (and it will likely be rather more than that), then there will be a very sudden 6dB (or more) gain change right at the top end.... very distracting...

The usual solutions are:
- reduce the gain range,
- maybe have more than one range
- perhaps a 20dB or so pad
- use a very high quality pot (expensive)
- use a 'switched' pot (could be more cost effective)

Alan
 
> discrete resistors with rotary switch instead of pots. .... I can get better responce with the use of this kind of pots, gain control, volume , filters ?

The big advantage of a pot is that it is cheap and usually works OK.

But it is a resistor that is not sealed and has a metal finger dragging on it. The finger has to drag lightly so it won't wear-out the resistor. The resistor stuff has to be picked for toughness against friction and resistance to air, not for stability or "sound".

Amazingly enough, pots really do work great in most audio. If they didn't, we'd be paying a LOT more for everything. While many people say they hear "sound" in resistors, after we lost the worst carbon composition (pencil shavings in a wax cylinder) resistors, all modern resistors sound the same to me: pots, carbon film, metal.

Affordable pots don't allow you to hit the EXACT same setting every time. (There are 10-turn pots with vernier dials for big $$$, but even they aren't as precisely repeatable as you could wish.)

And the thin resistor stuff used in pots isn't very good for very low-ohm settings. As Alan says, a mike amp gain-set resistance normally needs to be lower than 100 ohms for all mike-level gains, which means 10 ohms or less at maximum gain. Many cheap pots won't even give less than 100 ohms, or they jump suddenly from many-dozen ohms to under 1 ohm.

And because the dragging metal finger in a pot has to drag lightly to avoid wear, it tends to lose contact on dirt or bumps. "Scratchy". This is worst on the high-gain circuits like mike amps.

Now consider a switch and resistors. The switch contacts are just contacts and can be made very rugged with high contact pressure to bite through dirt. The resistors are separate and can be picked from any golden-ear type you like. The switch contact resistance is typically 0.001 ohms, maybe 0.1 ohms when old and weak, so a 10 12 15 18 22 ohm sequence of gain resistors gives you exactly the resistance you expect, not whatever sloppy value the pot lands on.

But a GOOD switch is expensive, especially in the many-position configuration you normally want for a mike-amp gain control. $20 each for the switch (and $5-$20 for the resistors) isn't expensive. DACT charges well over $100 for gold-plated precision switched resistor networks (and doesn't stock one in mike-amp values). Multiply that times your 16-in board, it's expensive.

If you can find a GOOD reverse-audio 5K pot, it is usually perfectly acceptable. It will get scratchy after months or years of use, but you can buy another pot.

If you need precise gain repeatability, then you want a switch. If you are sure you can hear the "sound" of the resistor-stuff inside a pot, then you want a very-good switch to go with your very-good resistors.

If you have to ask: go with the pot. Some mighty fine machines use pots.

If you are using an SSM chip- don't try to turn a hound-dog's ear into a Gucci hand-bag. The SSM is a fine beast, but kinda defines your project as something that doesn't squander lots of dollars in exotic parts. If you were building around the Jensen 990 or one of the SSL preamps, a cheap pot would be a sin and a very-very-good pot might be harder to find than a good gold switch.
 
I find that switched resistors have the biggest advantage over pots when useing two units to get stereo. Really simplifies things, I personaly would use pots when possible, I just prefer haveing the continuous control of pots, especialy on things like gain controls. I most likely would not use pots for things like compressors, other then simple guitar like compressors. It is quite rare that I would go in and just rerecord part of a track, I would rather just rerecord it, but I am not makeing my liveing doing this stuff so its not money for me, just time.

adam
 
What about mixing different pre's and such. I would like to build some of the simpler projects like the what compressor, la2-light, green pre, and maybe some api pre's. I want to put them all in little alum. enclosures with external power supplies and rack them in a modular console thing. But I was wondering if it'd be better to use pots for the gain settings to have better control for level matching. What would be the way to go for this? (Assuming the availablilty of any taper/value pots)
 
Well I've thought about it and I guess it shouldn't matter so much anyways because if you're recording something in stereo it probably wouldn't be best to use different types of preamps huh? Well maybe it would actually and then I would have to go with pots. :razz:
 
I ment when useing two of the same units in stereo, but there is no reason not to use different unit on each channel in stereo, or even to have the same settings on stereo on both channels. It can have some nice effects in the end, it can also sound really quite bad.

adam
 
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