DIY Balanced Power

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tablebeast

Well-known member
Joined
Feb 8, 2005
Messages
160
Location
Forest City, NC, USA
Ok, the hums and irregularities of line voltage is driving me crazy. It seems that buildign lots of sinsitive tube circuit are biting me int he ass because I don't have clean power to feed it. I have Isolation transformers and pwoer conditoners but these don't do enough to give me that pure 117 AC that I crave. I don't have the money to buy one of those $1700 Furman Things http://www.samash.com/catalog/showi...n=FRO&ovcpn=FROOGLE&ovcrn=FIT20IIXX&ovtac=CMP. I do have the budget to build my own however, I just need some info on what's involved with building one of these devices. I Google searched already and found some info but I want to see what you guys think. Anyone have ideas about this? Thanks in advance.

Jesse
 
Peavey used to make amplifiers with 60-0-60V secondaries. They make great AC balancing transformers... if that's your bag. -By the way, balanced power has nothing to do with voltage regulation, nor does either of those two thihngs to do with power conditioning. They're three seperate things, any or all of which can be built into a fancy box.

I shouldn't repeat it too often, but I've never had balanced power cure many problems that weren't actually cured by the re-wiring that goes along with it...

And your present AC power IS current-balanced anyhow, and therefore -since noise induction is CURRENT related and not VOLTAGE related, you shouldn't expect Equi-tech or Furman to make an improvement.

The fact that "Monster Cable" also make balanced power conditioners tells us a lot... -Think about it.

in fact the best bang-for-buck thing that I've been pointed towards lately appears to be the smaller sine-wave offerings from Tripp-Lite. They regulate AND provide sine-wave output UPS, for about $350... Can't beat that, I don't think...

Keith
 
Ah.

I haven't used Tripp-lite myself, but I'm sick and tired of our old APCs giving trouble...

Perhaps the other man's grass really isn't greener? :wink:

Keith
 
Back in the early 80's I tried a balanced power experiment
that turned out very well. I built a project studio with a
1" 16 track, a soundcraft 1600 and an outboard toy rack. I found a used 30amp iso transformer that had a centre tapped secondary.
I wired it 60-0-60. Used hospital wall plugs, ran all the grounds
to the centre tap and used a #2 copper wire to its own copper
ground stake from the centre tap. The only noise you could
hear was TL072 white noise from the soundcraft. VERY QUITE.
This is worth a try if you can find the iso trafo cheap.

GARY
 
Will they hang or shoot me if I din't connet the ground wire from outlet to the chassis of my amp? :cool:
 
[quote author="Wavebourn"]Will they hang or shoot me if I din't connet the ground wire from outlet to the chassis of my amp? :cool:[/quote]

Probably both. :grin:

chrissugar
 
Way back in the day, when the British telephone system was operated by the GPO (General Post Office)...

A woman calls to tell them that her dog is telepathic. The dog knows a couple of seconds before the phone rings, and announces the fact by howling... BEFORE the phone rings!.

She's ignored for a while, but eventually someone drives out to take a look.

It seems that the dog is chained up in the yard -a metal chain of course- to the telephone pole where the service comes in. The ground has lifted-and-linked, and the phone loop is partly returning via ground... and as luck would have it, it's partly returning through the dog chain -and then via the dog- to ground. The phone ring has become a little weaker, and -in those days when the claper used to bounce between two bells- it takes a second or so for the clapper to gain it's full swing and start striking the bells.

So now, every time someone telephones her, the ringing voltage is 'tickling' the dog, who starts to howl, because it's so unpleasant. -A second or so later, the clapper has got enough kinetic energy together to start ringing the bells.

The poor dog had been tormented for months before they worked out how it was happening!

So -with that tale in mind- yes, power issues can go unnoticed and be "fixed" by balanced power, but Measuring line-to-ground voltages on live and Neutral, and checking that there's no secondary Neutral-to-ground links downstream, and no neutral/ground conductor swaps or other stupidities, it's perfectly possible to have "inky, black silence" from wide open gains, without resorting to balanced power.

..And yet people seem to buy into it "because it's balanced and therefore better". I'd be spending that money on something that made me money or that I could enjoy, rather than balancing power.

One thing that balancong power FORCES you to do is ELIMINATE neutral/ground confusions, and that in itself fixes most stuff. -As a result, when facilities have installed and tested balanced power, you'll often find that bypassing the balancing transformer demonstrates very little or often absolutely no increase in noise floor.

And balanced power or no, ground loops are still going to hum.

Keith
 
[quote author="SSLtech"]
The fact that "Monster Cable" also make balanced power conditioners tells us a lot... -Think about it.

Keith[/quote]

Oh I have a story. But someday I may be obliged to be nice to those....errr....people in order to eat.
 
let me add my voice to the chorus- balanced power is snake oil and in some cases a safety hazard. like the other guys say, the 'improvements' that some have noticed are due to the cleaning up of wiring and the transformer isolation that are part of the install, not the fact that the power is balanced.
 
[quote author="SSLtech"]

So now, every time someone telephones her, the ringing voltage is 'tickling' the dog, who starts to howl, because it's so unpleasant. -A second or so later, the clapper has got enough kinetic energy together to start ringing the bells.

[/quote]

I heard the story a bit differently: the dog started to urinate so urine conducted the ringing current... :cool:

Anyway, the biggest issue is a ground loop that can be eliminated by ground lift, I am not sure if it is completely legal, but couple of reverse-paralleled diodes would help.
 
I have had really good results with a simple line isolation transformer. granted, I di the wiring... in otherwords a seperate feed to the studio line with it's own dedicated neutral as well and a ground all the way back to the main ground bus.

I was able to find a very nice Topaz unit- similar to these sola jobs for about 300.
http://www.candhsales.biz/cgi-bin/shop991/shop.pl/SID=640625188/page=ULIS.htm#STR9803

I got one big enough for a 15 or 20 amp circuit... and carefully star connect everything to this outlet. If you need more juice, get a couple and just plan your hook-up carefully.
I never measured how much if any noise reduction I had, but my studio is very quiet. The effect on my computers was significant. way more stable.

The units themselves are a little noisy though, they need to be in a safe garage or closet, NOT in your control room.

Kelly
 
What if the power is not a pure sine, but more exponent-shaped, with flatter tops? Would it be better for effectiveness? :green:

However, the ratio between acting and amplitude voltage will be different... ;)
 
try calling them. they are having a huge sale right now 50% off of everything :sad: I think they are closing, or at least closing the walk in part of the operation.
They have small quantities of stuff that isn't listed.
They might give you a really good deal.
Kelly
 
Pure sine is a UPS or power source with a 60Hz sine gen at 120 V and whatever current rating. CJ has mentioned this before- he has something at work.
My AC likes to swing +/- 6V because of a combination of a long driveway and the utility's polite refusal to upgrade my service.
I do not have a pure sine as my goal, but I have a 20A 12VDC power supply ($50 surplus) and borrowed a friend's auto inverter and the output is quiet enough for a bench power source. I am saving the $$$ and looking for an inverter of my own ($100).
I feed a big trannie that can give me 120 or 240 with a center-tap if I want to go balanced.
The setup eliminates B+ fluctuation which is what I need when working on tube gear.
Mike
 
I think the 'Crown' part (which always seems to get mentioned) comes from the following story:

Front-of-house engineer for (AC/DC?) once had his console power supply die 10 minutes before the band wer to take the stage. The redundant power supply had just died, so this really WAS bad luck, and there was a chance of a lot of VERY unhappy people if things couldn't get fixed... and fast.

So he took a 9V battery and wired it to the input XLR. Then he set the volume control measuring the output with a multimeter, until it read the correct amount of DC...then he fed the downed console power rail from that.

For an entire gig, the console was ultimately being driven from a 9-Volt battery. -In so far as: if the battery died, so did the console.

Why did this have to be a crown? -Well it was back in the days of the Crown DC-300, which amplified DC.

Any audio power amp with ±90Volt power rails should be able to give you a pure 120VAC RMS sine wave, though people always seem to use the name 'Crown'... funny, isn't it. :grin:

Keith
 
1) two opposite polarity 60V waveforms can generate less mains related noise than a single 120v waveform. True but not necessarily the cause of all equipment hum. Perhaps some benefit if tracking non hum bucking guitar pickup.

2) Any 2-wire gear expecting one line to be 0V may be unhappy, but safety standards generally should still protect users. (old guitar amps with on/off/on switches may be problematic).

3) DC300 console power supply story is a classic. Version I recall involved bridge mode to provide 2 tracking rails, but my version may be "enhanced" over the years, did the DC300 even have bridge mode?. :grin:

4) Yes. higher power audio amps can synthesize a 120V mains replica, or 2x60V using bridge mode for some limited applications, but they often fall short of adequate drive current to say test other power amps and such. With the exception of PFC PS amps the current in most amps is drawn at the very peaks of the waveforms.

This can also lead to unreliable results if making average voltage measurements of mains voltage. As an amplifier's output waveform gets squared off due to current limiting, it's average level can still be high while it's peak voltage drops. You pretty much need to look at the peak voltage with a scope and/or use a better power source. This is also a common error when using variacs in bench testing as many will also distort the mains waveform under heavy peak current draw.

JR
 
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