EEV Blog Multimeter

[cyrano]

Lots of companies were making yellow DMMs before Fluke trademarked the colour.

Let's presume you buy a new car. Only, the model you selected isn't available in dark blue, because some other car manufacturer has decided it's their trademark. And you really want a dark blue one...

What happens when you run out of colours? Or what about "Black & White" registering both black and white as TM?

I'm OK with trademarks. Name, logo, form. Not colour. For the same reason generic words aren't accepted as TM. Sanity.

Nothing to do with "protecting". Everything to do with "harassing" competition.

 

[Khron]

Not like patents or IP ever stopped far-eastern entrepreneurs(?) from cloning (and even counterfeiting) anything, anyway...

 

[JohnRoberts]

Lots of companies were making yellow DMMs before Fluke trademarked the colour.

You seem to be operating under a flawed understanding of trade dress wrt IP protections. Fluke has protected the cosmetic handheld meter design "look" using a dark face and yellow border. From a quick glance, this cheapo VOM looks very much like the Fluke.

Let's presume you buy a new car. Only, the model you selected isn't available in dark blue, because some other car manufacturer has decided it's their trademark. And you really want a dark blue one...

Straw man they didn't patent the color.... The protected one very specific combination of colors.

What happens when you run out of colours? Or what about "Black & White" registering both black and white as TM?

I'm OK with trademarks. Name, logo, form. Not colour. For the same reason generic words aren't accepted as TM. Sanity.

Nothing to do with "protecting". Everything to do with "harassing" competition.

Perhaps I have a perspective more sympathetic to Fluke because I have had product designs of my own ripped off... Back last century I developed a small mixer (RQ200) to be built in China and hit a lower price point for a wider market. Within a year Behringer introduced their own knock off. We didn't register a design patent so had no legal recourse. To add insult to injury, they even copied the specifications right off my data sheet down to the last decimal point. They probably didn't have a working unit to bench test when they developed their sales literature.

There seems to be broad disrespect of IP.... Again I am more sympathetic to IP rights because I have actually created IP.

JR

 

[gyraf]

I'm OK with trademarks. Name, logo, form. Not colour. For the same reason generic words aren't accepted as TM. Sanity.

..like tilt eq or variable mu compressor?

/Jakob E.

 

[cyrano]

Something like that, Jakob.

Like a food brand called "Natur". Obviously, industrial. If they'd called it "nature", it would probably have been refused.

 

[user 37518]

Something like that, Jakob.

Like a food brand called "Natur". Obviously, industrial. If they'd called it "nature", it would probably have been refused.

Like Monster Cable suing any company with the name "Monster" in it

From Wiki:

In the 2000s, Monster had legal disputes over its trademarks with the Discovery Channel for its show Monster Garage.[14] Monster also had trademark disputes with Bally Gaming International over its slot machines, Monster Slots, with Hansen Beverage Co. for its Monster Energy drink, and the Chicago Bears, who use the nickname "Monsters of the Midway".[16] Other trademark disputes include a 2001[18] lawsuit against The Walt Disney Company for products related to the film Monsters, Inc.,[15] and a claim against an online used clothing retailer, MonsterVintage LLC.[15] In 2004, Monster filed a complaint about the trademark application from Snow Monsters, a video website with skiing content for kids. The Snow Monsters owner initiated a lawsuit against Monster pre-emptively.[14] It has also had a trademark dispute with the job site, Monster.com.[16]

In 2006 Monster brought a suit against Monster Mini Golf, a company selling franchise Mini Golf locations throughout the US. After an unsuccessful legal mediation, Monster Mini Golf launched a grassroots campaign against Monster Cable on the Internet. As a result, Monster received more than 200 complaints from the public. Monster Cable dropped the lawsuit and agreed to pay up to $200,000 of Monster Mini Golf's legal fees.[15] In 2009 Monster Cable CEO Noel Lee said on Fox Business that the company has had to balance their trademark protection efforts with the public's point-of-view.[19]

 

[JohnRoberts]

IP protection mainly gives one the right to sue... Companies with deep(er) pockets can abuse that to intimidate small competitors.

My one patent that went to court (infringement against Behringer) was unsuccessful.

Lawsuits do not always get decided on the merit if the case, but proficiency of lawyers.

JR

 

[cyrano]

That's what I was getting at, John.

Fluke's pockets are deep enough to be able to waste millions, if needed. They even didn't have to go to court. You simply ask customs to impound every yellow meter. Didn't cost them a dime, as the taxpayer is funding customs.

Worked.

Now I can't get a yellow meter. My sense of fairness doesn't allow it. Fortunately, my vintage Fluke 73 is two shades of grey.

Unfortunately, the trend is set. Even garden tools makers are registering their colours. We've allowed them to get away with it. Denying others the same opportunity would be unfair.

 

[JohnRoberts]

That's what I was getting at, John.

what?

Fluke's pockets are deep enough to be able to waste millions, if needed. They even didn't have to go to court. You simply ask customs to impound every yellow meter. Didn't cost them a dime, as the taxpayer is funding customs.

Doesn't work that way. From 15 years working at Peavey we had lots of counterfeit knock offs including patent infringement. I hate repeating myself but IP protection is basically the right to sue, government enforcement only comes in after winning the court action and the counterfeiter keeps openly copying. I have heard anecdotes about entire containers of counterfeit goods being seized but routinely this involves inside information about when and where such containers can be located. Since the importer had to pay for the goods before the container shipped he takes the monetary loss.

We only had success in one case where a Taiwan factory making Peavey's high end (radial pro) drums, was shipping inventory out the factory side door to Italy. Our Italian distributor caught that criminal behavior when the drums reached Italy.

Worked.

what worked?

Now I can't get a yellow meter. My sense of fairness doesn't allow it. Fortunately, my vintage Fluke 73 is two shades of grey.

...

Unfortunately, the trend is set. Even garden tools makers are registering their colours. We've allowed them to get away with it. Denying others the same opportunity would be unfair.

Let me give you some real IP unfairness to chew on...

A friend of mine was selling an inexpensive smart phone drum tuning app... that didn't suck... Not as good as my tuner for clearing lugs, but more than accurate enough for sniffing notes. I actually touted his tuner on my website. The market leader selling an electronic drum tuning gadget, sued him out of business claiming patent infringement. It would have cost him thousands just to answer the original cease and desist court case (out of state for him), and then challenging the dubious patent claim with USPTO would cost another tens of thousands. A weak challenge with the patent office could have the unintended consequence of making the patent claim stronger if the challenge failed. My friend ended up signing a non-compete release contract to settle the infringement lawsuit and can't work in the drum tuning industry. He has invested his excess effort into patent reform, lots to do there too. I contributed $500 for his original infringement defense but he returned my money after he gave up the fight and signed the non-compete agreement.

JR

 

[megasat16]

Let me give you some real IP unfairness to chew on...

A friend of mine was selling an inexpensive smart phone drum tuning app... that didn't suck... Not as good as my tuner for clearing lugs, but more than accurate enough for sniffing notes. I actually touted his tuner on my website. The market leader selling an electronic drum tuning gadget, sued him out of business claiming patent infringement. It would have cost him thousands just to answer the original cease and desist court case (out of state for him), and then challenging the dubious patent claim with USPTO would cost another tens of thousands. A weak challenge with the patent office could have the unintended consequence of making the patent claim stronger if the challenge failed. My friend ended up signing a non-compete release contract to settle the infringement lawsuit and can't work in the drum tuning industry. He has invested his excess effort into patent reform, lots to do there too. I contributed $500 for his original infringement defense but he returned my money after he gave up the fight and signed the non-compete agreement.

JR

I think that's the smart thing your friend do when he has so many other things to do. I am guessing that he would pursue other things than competing with Big Guys out there. Filing a patent with USPTO is a nightmare to begin with when I tried to file some cable designs a few years ago and I basically gave up.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I think that's the smart thing your friend do when he has so many other things to do. I am guessing that he would pursue other things than competing with Big Guys out there.

Sadly he was bullied out of his business by another small business just slightly larger than he was... It didn't cost them more than a few hundred dollars to file suit in their home state,,, He didn't have the personal resources to defend himself in that court, even though I agreed with his analysis that the infringement claim was flawed. It doesn't matter what I (we) think, but what a lawyer can convince a judge and court.

The drum tuner customers were deprived of an inexpensive product that surely would have taken market share from the gadget seller.

Filing a patent with USPTO is a nightmare to begin with when I tried to file some cable designs a few years ago and I basically gave up.

Not that hard (I have 9) but patents are mostly expensive wallpaper that only gives you the right to sue. My plan when I patented my drum tuner, was to partner with a deep pockets company (like a Yamaha) who could use my IP with their deep pockets to control the market. Sadly that version of history did not play out. Cest la vie

JR

 

[megasat16]

I agree! It's the world we live in. It's hard to prove who really has the original idea of the IP in court. But I think the one with more money is sort the one who usually wins. Anyway, I am not expert in this matter and I am make your own paver stone kind of guy.

As far as patent goes, it can be very useful or just paper weight that cost actual money. But your Sound Practices CD is a great value to me. I still have CD in my drawer and I enjoy reading it. Thanks!

 

[Whoops]

Hello everyone,
Maybe the discussion is getting too much out of topic, don’t you think?