"Family values" in today's United States...

[desol]

Uh huh. You're trying to claim a gang so you don't feel so alone right now.

No I'm just explaining that the law is the law. That ain't my fault!

 

[desol]

Gonna give you a little piece of advice pucho, you can thank me later. Never, ever, trust the police.

The police have been helpful to me at times. At other times I thought they were jerks.

Life is so unfair.

 

[pucho812]

Ask them, pucho, and they'll tell you the same.

I am sure it's person specific and not the norm but that thanks for playing

 

[desol]

Who cares? What's it to you? 'The law is the law' is just an excuse for you to not think critically about it and avoid taking any responsibility for their suffering. WE DESTROY THEIR COUNTRIES. That's why you're able to be all sassy at your computer. Your ease is built on their misery. When we murder them for trying to escape what we've done to them, "Hey, the law is the law", not any of YOUR business.

pfft.

Your accusatory rant is where this all began. I didn't destroy anyone's country and I did not murder anyone.  I also did not watch the video, as I said. I live in Canada. You'd have to be more specific.

 

[ruairioflaherty]

No, I don't have kids, and I couldn't watch the video(too slow downloading)...so I know nothing about the context you're building.

All I know is the law is the law...and I don't mean it to sound insensitive...but that a lot of immigrants are illegal. Or coming into the country illegally.

I can think of a thousand instances when I thought the law was being unfair to me...but I was, in fact outside of it.

Hey Desol,

I'm not building any context.  I was just shocked at what you wrote, I wrote several replies and deleted them.

Anything I write will sound negative, condescending or angry so I'm going to stay quiet.  Perhaps someday you will have children and be able to put what you said in a different context. 

Ruairi
(An Emigrant who loves his country (and his new country))

 

[ruairioflaherty]

FWIW I would like to vote Tands off the Island. 

I genuinely believe that he is here solely to divide people.

 

[desol]

His intention is good, I think he just needs to communicate his ideas better, so he can actually contribute something worth reading. Unless he only cares about himself, and his own perspective....

 

[desol]

Hey Desol,

I'm not building any context.  I was just shocked at what you wrote, I wrote several replies and deleted them.

Anything I write will sound negative, condescending or angry so I'm going to stay quiet.  Perhaps someday you will have children and be able to put what you said in a different context. 

Ruairi
(An Emigrant who loves his country (and his new country))

Again I didn't watch the video. I probably wish I had...but it wouldn't download fast enough. When it comes to immigration, the law is the law. That's how it's treated where I live, and everyone respects it. There are no exceptions....and there never have been for me.

As long as everyone plays by the rules, everything works out good...usually.

 

[ruairioflaherty]

I did not watch the video. My question about kids was solely related to your question "Do they not love their country?".

Anyway, I'm out.  We are on very different pages of life and will achieve nothing arguing about it on here.

Good luck

 

[desol]

Wanting a better life for your kids is awesome, as long as people do it legally!

Who's arguing? lol

I think you should probably at least try to explain yourself before you storm off!?

 

[ruairioflaherty]

Wanting a better life for your kids is awesome, as long as people do it legally!

Who's arguing? lol

I think you should probably at least try to explain yourself before you storm off!?

I'm not storming off, just choosing not to engage. 

 

[desol]

ok? I wasn't sure that you were?

I wasn't trying to engage either!

 

[tands]

Why would I want to divide anyone? I don't even think about it.

Facts matter.

 

[Scodiddly]

No I'm just explaining that the law is the law. That ain't my fault!

Ah, the Nuremburg defense.

 

[tands]

v

[this post was reported, forcing me to look at it.... that was pretty unpleasant.

Please try to be less ugly and more thoughtful. JR]

 

[desol]

You guys are comedians.

What part of my statement isn't reasonable. When you drive, you have to drive certain speed. If you go too fast, it's against the law and you get a ticket. If you don't drive too fast, you don't get a ticket; it's not against the law.

Laws apply to everyone equally. Laws apply to immigration as well.

I'm still failing to understand how this is unjust and unreasonable.

For some reason, because of the Trump immigration blowup, a person can't mention anything reasonable in terms of immigration laws without people freaking out. I'm not even a Trump fan? I think he's a jerk!

 

[desol]

Ah, the Nuremburg defense.

I didn't make the laws...I just abide by them.

 

[ruairioflaherty]

You guys are comedians.

What part of my statement isn't reasonable. When you drive, you have to drive certain speed. If you go too fast, it's against the law and you get a ticket. If you don't drive too fast, you don't get a ticket; it's not against the law.

Laws apply to everyone equally. Laws apply to immigration as well.

I'm still failing to understand how this is unjust and unreasonable.

For some reason, because of the Trump immigration blowup, a person can't mention anything reasonable in terms of immigration laws without people freaking out. I'm not even a Trump fan? I think he's a jerk!

Alright man, let's look at a few examples.

You mentioned that you don't have kids.  Let's imagine that you have elderly parents.  They are hungry and have been for months.  They are in danger, constantly.  Women are raped and murdered in your home town at staggering levels.  Your government is corrupt.  Your only choice to provide for your family is to leave your hometown and travel elsewhere in your country, leaving your family vulnerable...

I know,  I know, you wouldn't dream of breaking the law.  Or crossing the border into the U.S. illegally to make a better life for your family.


Let's imagine another scenario.  The big one hits L.A. and we are cut off from the rest of California  I've stocked up but my food and water runs out after a few weeks.  My choice, watch my kids go thirsty and hungry or loot the local supermarket.  Of course, I'm gonna give my kids a stern lecture about the value of the law..

Empathy.  That's what's missing here.

These are brothers, sisters, fathers, mothers and children who are trying to survive - people just like you and me only with much less opportunity and often lower levels of education.  Illegal immigrants risk their lives to travel hundreds and thousands of miles to mow my lawn, clean my toilets, wash my car.  Can you imagine that?  Please try.

If I were them I would be doing exactly what they are doing.  "The law's the law" viewpoint is a a privilege you've lucked into by being born in the right place, just like I was.

Of course we can't just open the borders, but can we at least acknowledge the humanity of these people.  And...honor our obligations to international asylum treaties.  We will have to turn millions of people away, it is inevitable but let's treat them with respect. 

The idea that America is by default the greatest country in the world is absurd to me. But everyday we have the opportunity to lead by example and prove to the world that we are setting the standard for ethical behavior, and for democracy.

 

[living sounds]

What happened to my thread?  :-[

I was refering to the current  policy of taking very young children away from their parents, putting them in separate facilities often hundreds of miles apart without means of communication in order to deter immigrants from coming to the US.

Does anybody here think this is acceptable?

 

[desol]

Alright man, let's look at a few examples.

You mentioned that you don't have kids.  Let's imagine that you have elderly parents.  They are hungry and have been for months.  They are in danger, constantly.  Women are raped and murdered in your home town at staggering levels.  Your government is corrupt.  Your only choice to provide for your family is to leave your hometown and travel elsewhere in your country, leaving your family vulnerable...

I know,  I know, you wouldn't dream of breaking the law.  Or crossing the border into the U.S. illegally to make a better life for your family.


Let's imagine another scenario.  The big one hits L.A. and we are cut off from the rest of California  I've stocked up but my food and water runs out after a few weeks.  My choice, watch my kids go thirsty and hungry or loot the local supermarket.  Of course, I'm gonna give my kids a stern lecture about the value of the law..

Empathy.  That's what's missing here.

These are brothers, sisters, fathers, mothers and children who are trying to survive - people just like you and me only with much less opportunity and often lower levels of education.  Illegal immigrants risk their lives to travel hundreds and thousands of miles to mow my lawn, clean my toilets, wash my car.  Can you imagine that?  Please try.

If I were them I would be doing exactly what they are doing.  "The law's the law" viewpoint is a a privilege you've lucked into by being born in the right place, just like I was.

Of course we can't just open the borders, but can we at least acknowledge the humanity of these people.  And...honor our obligations to international asylum treaties.  We will have to turn millions of people away, it is inevitable but let's treat them with respect. 

The idea that America is by default the greatest country in the world is absurd to me. But everyday we have the opportunity to lead by example and prove to the world that we are setting the standard for ethical behavior, and for democracy.

I agree with all of that 100 percent. I'm Canadian, so I can't speak for the US. I am also very empathetic, but empathy never stopped cops from giving me tickets, when I was indeed speeding, when I had no money, couldn't pay my bills, had 10 points on my driving record and needed my license in order to find a job. It also didn't matter if I explained my situation, and that I was sorry. I still got a ticket! There's nothing wrong with people seeking asylum, as long as they do it legally. Otherwise they're only shooting 'themselves' in the foot. How is this any different than what I said before, only that I revealed that I do have empathy and outlined a particular situation that I personally went through.