Full Equipment Outfit Question(somewhat complicated perhaps)

[Lalalala]

Hello All,

A somewhat complicated question, although I imagine not too complex for the experienced. I'm finding it difficult to phrase as clearly as I would like, but I hope that it will be clear to you.

I have begun to put together a PC based studio. I want to be able to create not home or demo quality, but to be able to have a system that will allow me to create sounds that, at the end point, will equal the sonic quality of what is out there professionally--that is, to build a studio/have the tools that will allow me to go from recording all the way through to creating a finished product that will not sound less professional, sonically than what is out there.

Of course, writing this, the obvious caveats are jumping to mind--e.g. it depends upon the music you put in and the techniques, not simply the tools--but I would like to have all of the necessary tools to be able to have a system that, when I employ with appropriate skills, I can, on my own, create outcomes that will not be limited by the tools I have, or the lack of them.

Perhaps another way of putting this is:

What would be your suggestions for what I need to add to what I already have to have a "turnkey" studio that can create professionally sounding works, and will not be limited in the ability to do so by obvious links in the necessary items? What are the essentials in the chain that are missing here?

I suspect that there are many different choices and options here, but I suppose, being a novice, that I am looking for the essential chain--A + B + C + D etc.--the basic elements-- that, taken together, will allow for the creation of professional music compositions from start to finish--finish being distribution in CD form. I am aware that there are certain steps in the process such as mastering which occur, but do not yet understand the conceptual distinction between these steps--that is, thus far, I have just plugged various inputs into my 16 track KORG Digital and using various effect, tried to get it to "sound good". So I suspect some part of this requires a better understand of he necessary steps and consequent tools to get from A to Z.

Within the components, I am looking for maximum flexibility, ease of use, and ability to take advantage of as many sonic options as possible. Most important, though, is that I don't know what I need to add to what I have to have a complete set up that will allow me to produce CDs, start to finish, being my own distributor, with professional quality.

It may be worth noting that I plan to travel between two studios--one here, one in Asia, so plan to duplicate the setups in each place (carrying info back and forth on a laptop, I suppose, is how I've been thinking of it). Therefore, any thoughts on how to do this more economically without sacrifice of quality/flexibility/ease of use would be appreciated.

The set up (which I recognize at this point may limit my options) thus far is below:

Asus P4P800
Intel P4 3.0G 800FSB (Northwood C)
512Mb PC3200 DDR400
Energex PSU
Floppy
Lite-On burner
WD 800JB 7,200rpm System
WD 360GD 10,000rpm SATA Audio


So: In your view, and taking into account the many caveats, what would I need to complete the system to create professionally sounding CDs from start to finish and distribute them based on what I've produced?

Many thanks,

Alan

 

[Brian]

Unless i'm misunderstanding your question, this isn't really the right place to ask.
Here are a few links to more appropriate places (moderators: if this isn't cool, please remove them)
http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/ (Harvey Gerst's section would be a good place to start)
http://gearslutz.com/board/index.php3
http://marsh.prosoundweb.com/

You also might want to get a free subscription to this magazine:
http://tapeop.com/

good luck

 

[Lalalala]

Brian,

Thanks for your response.

I have posted questions much like this before in the lab since its inception; the response to these questions has been helpful answers and further questions and replies exchanged about it--never any suggestion that such questions were inappropriate. Indeed, this question is remarkably similar to those posed by myself and others in form and content, including responses in which The Lab was quite helpful in answering the questions that led to the equipment choices for the system described above. What is different about this question?

Secondly, I have read the guidelines (copied below) and cannot find any reference to any content in my question that somehow does not belong here. Going one by one, it is 1) a question that is asking about equipment, 2) is not spam, 3) does not ask for the exchange of money, 4) is under 20mb in terms of my box use, and 5) is intended to be, and I believe, is respectful.

Finally, even a cursory review of questions in the Lab, including many of my own and others, reveals hundreds of similar questions. Perhaps all of these questions are somehow inappropriate as well, and these should all be deleted? :>

What was it that you objected to in the content of my question about equipment, so much like those of my own and others, and within the guidelines, that caused you to become so concerned about its content that your response was that it should be deleted, rather than giving people the choice to answer it? It's difficult to see based on the content, guidelines, experience of self, questions from self, and questions of others, and answers from others.

But it's early in the morning and perhaps you just needed a little jolt.



Best,

AJL

 

[Infernal_Death]

Good thing is that you already realized that your own skills and ears are the key to success in this task.
Setting that aside i think today it is possible to do very good quality in a smaller studio setup than it was some years ago.
Today with a good computer you can make good quality recordings.
First thing is to decide on a recording program that suits your style. Learn how to use it. Plugins and computer software came a long way and today are quite good. Yes real analog gear right now is better than it's modeling software equivalent but also much more expensive.

I don't think it's good to give specific equipment recommandations as it's a personal thing. But make sure you have some very good monitors to judge your mix and of course a good sounding room. Some decent mics and some nice mic preamps are also very important. Maybe some good converters and you are set to go.
For the rest you can do pretty nicely with your computer. It doesn't have to be a Neve console with a studer 2" machine to make good sounds. (yeah although it's nice to have :green: )

I think what Brain wanted to point out is that here we walk much more about building your own gear. On the other forums he pointed out there is much more talk and news about commercially available gear.
Unless you intend to build yourself the stuff you need i also recommend you to visit those forums and read as much as you can.

No your question didn't violate any of the rules here and of course it was respectful, no doubt about that. It's just that the focus here is on building gear and not so much about the gear you can buy.

Flo

 

[Brian]

Hi AJL,
First let me start by saying that i was trying to be helpful, not to discourage you. I'm sure that the advice you have gotten in the past was from similar users who just want to help you out. That does not negate the fact that it really isn't the correct forum, but if you choose to post here feel free to do so.
The reason i suggested you look elsewhere is because this place is generally about what goes on INSIDE the boxes you're looking for, not really which box is better or what mics you should buy. If you're interested in building your own equipment from scratch, well than you've found the right place! While i'm sure there are users here who would be more than happy (and qualified) to answer you correctly, this place focuses on circuit design, building and modifying equipment, troubleshooting, and things of that nature. The forums i linked too focus on recording and gear choice questions specifically, and would be better suited to helping you find what you're looking for.

Flo has given you some good tips too, and i'd like to add that once you decide on which software would be best for your situation, each manufacturer operates a user forum specific to that software (protools, nuendo, logic etc.). These places are as helpfull as the manual sometimes.

best of luck

 

[PRR]

Oh, everybody chill.

Brian surely meant to say "this isn't really the best place to ask", to preface some other good places for the question. It certainly is good here, and our host doesn't object to pointing out better places. You have to be a lot less cool to get your post removed. Even that silly BurgerKing EQ thread hasn't been moved to the Brewery yet (though if it don't straighten-out and talk audio soon, it will).

Brian is right: this place is a piecemeal bits place, and some of those others take a more whole-studio view of things. So it would be good to ask there too. Of course you will probably find someone here with good thoughts on your question.

> have a "turnkey" studio that can create professionally sounding works

My grumpy old man answer: find a good studio, buy it, hire the staff.

I may be out of date, but my experience is that even after you get all the parts together and wired, it takes a long time (not "turn key") to get it all sorted out and working well. Part of that is sorting little idiosyncrasies in the separate pieces. Some of it is "user training": you have to learn how to use this specific set of gear to meet your musical aims. If there was a turnkey answer, there might be a lot more stars. (And a lot more well-recorded crap.)

I am out of date, yes. The modern audio workstations integrate a lot of bits that I had to cobble-up with soldering iron, Belden, and pads. Modern gear is better standardized, and we are not jammed so tight between hiss and distortion as we used to be. Someone who is more hip to the new gear should tell us what is cool now.

> The set up ...thus far is below:

That is a bit better than what I use in postproduction and mastering. You don't seem to have a sound card, but I don't use mine. What I actually do is on-location, with various mikes and a simple mixer direct to stereo CD. Then I dump that CD to the PC, trim applause and coughs, EQ, normalize levels, and layout a CD. And get paid, so I must be professional.

But if you want to 24-track an orchestra, or multi-track yourself on voice, guitar, piano, my setup is not at all applicable. You would probably want a few good mike inputs to the PC, and a much snazzier audio editing suite than I need. As I say I'm not hip, but from what I know of the PC(or Mac) platform, many-track audio is probably better done on a dedicated processor, like your KORG only maybe beefier. Of course a beefy audio workstation is expensive, so PC/Mac-based tools are popular, and I understand they can give perfectly pro-quality results.

> produce CDs, start to finish, being my own distributor, with professional quality

How many? A few dozen demo-disks, you burn them in the PC and print them in a Epson R200. Looks really good and nobody need know it was home-made. But the inkjet ink can cost over $1 per disk, and you need special $0.33 blanks, and it is tedious. I did 100 that way and refused to do more, told them to send the job to DiscMakers. 1,000CDs fully printed for $990, plus posters and barcode, such a deal. They will even list your disk on CDBaby and people can buy it, but real promotional distribution takes more than a listing on a CD site. Thank goodness I don't do that any more.

 

[pstamler]

The first and most important thing you need is a good room. Or rather two of them, a studio and a control room. Without a well-planned studio with good acoustic treatment, anything you record is likely to sound amateurish. And without a good monitoring and mixing environment, anything you mix is likely not to translate to other rooms well.

Yes, there's a real difference in a lot of the equipment found in pro studios and home project studios; you won't find a lot of Behringer stuff in the former. And yes, equipment really does matter. But that's only the second biggest difference between real pro places and home jobs. The biggest difference is the room(s).

Peace,
Paul

 

[Lalalala]

Thanks for these replies

Paul, I found your reply particularly important, because I have recognized that I need to develop a good recording environment.

So:

Let's say, for the sake of knowing what we're starting with, that:

-I have a one-room area. Let's assume now that it's empty, save instruments, and has walls of drywall. Wood floors, no carpet, approximately 20 x 20.

-I'll typically be recording vocals, some acoustic instruments (e.g. acoustic guitars), some electronic instruments, which will either go directly into recording inputs (e.g. triton), others which will be played into the room and recorded miked up (e.g. miked amps/electric guitar).

-What would you suggest for a basic way of setting up the room? I am prepared to create some "walls" using materials that you might suggest. But what would you envision and suggest for setting up the room for the best (e.g. professional sounding, as you suggest above) and flexible acoustic properties.

I definately get the gist of what you're saying, and would be very interested in any basic and or/advance info that you can provide on this based on your experience, or that of others. I understand that there are some materials on this, but would be interested in your setups, for those who would like to offer their opinions and experience on designing the room--either in simple, easily modified form, using more readily available materials and methods, or, more advance approaches.

Again, thanks to all for your time.


Best,

Alan

 

[Family Hoof]

Alan,

So if I;m interpreting correctly, we're assuming so far that you have the skills and the budget for good gear. BUT, do you have the room? In my experience, a great sounding live room, acoustically transparent (or at least moreso than your attic/garage/basement) control room, and excellent isolation from the outside world are what separate good professional studios from home studios with comparable equipment selections. Also, do you have kickass monitors + amps that you know very well? The points I'm getting at are that nothing else matters if you can't hear what you're doing and the instrument does not sound good in the space.

"It starts at the source" is my acoustic recording bible. Thus the order of priorities is 1) musician, 2) instrument, 3) room acoustics, 4) microphone, 5) mic preamp, 6) A/D converter, and so on.. However, you don't want to have any weak links in the chain such cheap digital word clock or low resolution monitors which will bring the quality of everything else down.

Let's put things in perspective with some transportation analogies...

You don't need a race car if you're driving to work in slow traffic.
An off road vehicle is overkill for paved city streets.

What use is a jet plane without a runway? Ya know what I mean?

 

[Lalalala]

The questions, following from your analogies are:

1) What are the best components that, added to my current jet/car, would comprise the most high quality flexible vehicle for a variety of uses--be it a open, funky, stock car race, a slick, high performance Indy 500, or all the other types of travels one might take--these travels enhanced as much as possible and limited as little as possible by the components and performance together of the vehicle on these different journeys

2) What are the best materials and forms for the track upon which I am going to use this vehicle? A flat, dull, soft, logy surface will not enhance the properties of the vehicle; but perhaps an overly hard, sharp, glassy track will limit some of the qualities that I can get from this vehicle as well. So what would be the construction here that would serve *all* of these different possible journeys with the most flexibility?

That way, I have a car that can perform in any race that I'd like, and a surface on which it can perform as I'd like.

Seems like a reasonable question, hm? :>

 

[DrFrankencopter]

Listen to these guys, they're steering you in the right direction.

The things that seperate the big pro recordings from the amateur bedroom studio demos are mainly the following:

1. Experience...having a vision for what the finished product should, or could sound like, and knowing what direction to go for in terms of what instruments to layer, and how to record/mix them so that the finished product has the right character
2. A killer room (or rooms)...if it's an acoustic instrument (and I include guitar amps in this category) you need aroom to put it in, and the sound of that room will translate into the recordings. If you have a boxy, flutter echo prone room, then all your recordings will show it! I'd rather work in a great room with a Mackie mixer than a cube with a class A Neve. Buy yourself a copy of Alton Everes'ts Master Handbook of Acoustics, or Sound Studio Construction on a Budget. There's too much depth in acoustics....it's not just wall coverings. it's wall construction, room dimensions, it's all about details. Buy the book....
3. Experience...having an idea where to put musicians, instruments to make the most of your room. Knowing the sound of your monitors and control room. Knowing how to make a cue mix that will allow you to get the most out of the musicians (don't overlook the importance of a cue mix....remember that this is the reference for all the tracks you add...crappy cue mixes tend to lead to uninspired performances, or frustrated musicians).
4. Transducers....mics and speakers. A good set of microphones, and a good set of monitors to hear them back will go a long way. Of course, you're going to need experience to know where to place them....
5. The rest of the chain. I beleive that the 4 items above constitute the biggest differences between bedroom demos and pro recordings, but of course all the other gear in the studio does make a difference, but less so.

Cheers,

Kris

 

[Lalalala]

Thanks for the advice and info!

Best,

Alan

 

[Mbira]

Check out the links that Brian suggested above. You will find many of the answers to the questions that you have asked. Their whole thing is studio layout, acoustics, etc.

Also this one:
http://johnlsayers.com/phpBB2/index.php

Good luck.

Joel