Guitar Pickup Wiring Question

[dayvel]

I'm not much of a guitar player, but I do have to lay down a track now and then. I'm tired of unscrewing my pickup to move between bridge and neck pickups, so I broke down and bought another pickup (identical to the one I have now.)
I looked at the various wiring schemes on the net and they all seem too complicated or just plain wrong-headed. I just want to be able to blend the two pickups. I came up with this circuit, and I'd like to know if it will work-

The shields are grounded and the coils are floating (they're actually humbuckers, but I don't want to do any tricks with that, so I've shown them as single coil.) I've also left out the tone control for simplicity.

 

[PRR]

> just plain wrong-headed.

That's what I always say when I see guitar pickup wiring.

And it is astonishingly hard to find examples.

In an ideal world, yours might work fine. But I think in a real gig the ungrounded pot and pickup will be too suspectable to buzz, even shielded. And the maximum output impedance could be twice as high as a single pickup, making more trouble with long cables and transistor inputs.

HERE is a basic logical 2-pickup plan. You can ignore the tone caps and pots. Pretend the switch shorts both Vol pot wipers together and to the output. If you keep the VOL controls at middle setting, they mix the two pickups.

But you can't shut-off one pickup. I think that is why the 3-way switch IS a standard guitar gizmo: without an A-AB-B switch, you would have to go to some other, more lossy, mixing network.

 

[dayvel]

Thanks, PRR. The circuit you linked is the one I was going to use as a back up plan in case mine didn't work, using a couple of toggle SPST switches instead of springing for a 3way. The way the volume pots interact really cheezes me off, though.
My main noise concern is picking up the crud from my computer monitor as I punch in every 2 beats cuz I am one suck-ass guitar player.
I'm going to give my circuit a shot to see if I can get away with it, and if not, go to plan B. Thanks for giving this the once-over; wanted to make sure I hadn't overlooked something really stupid.

 

[lovekraft]

Common guitar wiring practice wires dual humbuckers in parallel, with the outputs wired to the volume pot wipers to eliminate the interaction, like this:

I don't know that there's anything special that particular setup, but it will let you adjust the level of each pickup individually, and the sound is going to be what you expect from a conventional dual humbucker guitar. Running the pickups in series (at least in my experience) makes for a muddy sound, I assume (probably incorrectly :grin: ) from the lowered resonant frequency of the series inductances. Of course, I'm not an EE, I'm mathematically impaired, and that's just based on my hotrodding experience, so your mileage may vary wildly!

 

[dayvel]

Thanks, I saw that hookup in my web travels and kind of dimissed it, probably unfairly. The more I think about it, the more I like it.

I did read about humbuckers in series sounding muddy, but I saw plenty of hookups that did wire them in series, nonetheless.

Another thing to consider is that these are "rail" type humbuckers, really hot. They sound (to me at least) a lot more like single coil pickups than conventional humbuckers; they can really take your head off in the bridge position.

I'll definitely try this one out. Thanks again.

 

[scott_humphrey]

This may be more than you want, but I wrote an article on pickup wiring for my web site:

http://www.treblebooster.com/brian_may_pickup_mod.htm


FYI: when the pickups are wired in series, the tone becomes very thick, and the top frequencies are supressed somewhat compared to the lower ones due to:

1) the increased inductance of the signal going through two coils instead of one
2) the increase resistance from all the extra pickup wire that the signal has to travel through, and
3) the increase capacitance that occurs from the pickup windings

This is not necessarily a bad thing. It just depends on what type of sound you're going for.

 

[OldHouseScott]

You might try a blend pot such as the J bass uses. StewMac sells two varieties and there are hookup diagrams on their site. I'm not sure if turning past the mid detent unloads the circuit or merely presents the max resistance through the end of travel. Or maybe they work like an equal power pan pot in reverse -- 2 in / 1 out.

HTH,

 

[dayvel]

Thanks, Scott H. Saw your site in my research and thought it was one of the best out there. I'll take a look at that J bass blend pot, too.

 

[ToobieSnack]

you could also add a switch that would turn off the second coil(s) in one or both pick-ups
that would give you a single coil sound or the double coil sound.
i love the single coil sound.
It has a very sticatto sound. (?? spelling) It kinda "pops" in a good way
Fast notes are really more distinct when playing lead
and when you play chords the individual notes seem to sparkle more.
It really depends on what kind of sound you are going for.
Who are some of yoiur favorite performers?
What do they use?
for example:
I like Stevie Ray, Jeff Beck, David Gilmour (one of my hero's) Dire straits
All single coil
I also like Santana , Al DiMiola , BB King and Pat Travers
all humbuckers
then there are players like Steve Morse (Dixie Dregs) Vinnie Moore <(this guy is Freakin AAAAmazing) and Van halen
these guys would mix it up a bit and go back and forth between single and double coil.
Steve's Monster Frankenstien tele with a strat neck has 5 pick-ups (counting the guitar synth pick-up tucked right up against the bridge) He has A double coil at the bridge and neck (with coil taps) with a tele neck pic-up directly in front of the bridge pick-up and a strat Pickup at an angle just in front of that. I cloned one a long time ago and even bought the Steve Morse signature pick-up from Dimarzio.
It is now in need of some work or I'd show you a pic of that.
AND
Then just to throw a weird one in the mix how about Pat Metheny
He uses a Gibson ES 345 (same as 335 but stereo ...both bodies similar to BB King's Luciel...??spelling again sorry??)
and strings the guitar with ALL graduated thicknesses of SOLID wire (no wound strings basically a bunch of diff guage E B and G strings put together to create a 6 string)
This sounds amazing! An sounds NOTHING like a traditional humbucker.

I have tried this before. You would have to experiment with diff guages or ask Pat becuase I can't remember.
You could guess at it and throw them on ... tune it up...and if a string feels a bit too slinky/stretchy go up a size if it feels to tight go down a bit.

Basically research your favs and emulate, alter and experiment.
There are a lot of options and it's important/preferred to find your own sound.

As someone once said: (and I can't remember who some old cat)

It's not how well you play but ...Can your mother recognize you on the radio"

anyway hope this helps
ts

 

[Bluzzi]

If you go here you will find an assortment of wiring drawings. Hope one of those fits your needs.

http://www.seymourduncan.com/website/support/schematics.shtml


Jim

 

[bcarso]

quote: "It's not how well you play but ...Can your mother recognize you on the radio"

When I was growing up and still living at home I used to practice sax in my bedroom. I was doing so one day and my father came home and said he heard me playing the hifi too loud---he could hear it from the street as he got close to the house.

I took it as a compliment---one which he never would have freely given, intent as he was on discouraging any sort of a career in music. He always told me I could do anything I wanted. Then, when I wanted to do music, he told me I could do anything I wanted except music.

Normally, this would have guaranteed that I would stick to music, but I'm actually happy that it didn't work out that way for this lifetime ;-)

 

[BR]

you can also find some simple, but very usefull wiring diagrams at guitarelectronics.com..

my 2 cents

Gil

 

[ToobieSnack]

I know this is a bit off topic but...my apologies ...but
I'm glad someone got a kick out of the quote I posted.
that indeed was a nice , though unintentional, compliment from you dad.
did he ever realize it was actually you playing?
that might have changed his mind. about music career.
one thing ...music is a language ....and if someone does not understand the language they just won't ....get the point/ ...at any level..... like a joke in a foriegn language.
for the un-enlightened listener: if you got their attention your standing out somehow...you either have a unique sound or ,on the negative, ya just fkd up.
i find sometimes when people don't focus on you it because your not screwin up and you sound like the radio. which is ,in actuality, a compliment.
such as the one your dad ,unknowingly, paid you.

I had a similar experience where the FOH engineer was walkin to see/hear me play at a multistage festival and commented to a mutual friend. "I thought Jeff (toobie snack) was on the south stage? ....their playing pink floyd.... wish you were here from a CD "... my friend said "No that IS jeff ....playing wish you were here" i really was happy to hear that.
sometimes when emulating your hero's it becomes subconciously incorporated into your total style.
Play stuff you love and things will come together even your pick-up and guitar wiring choices. and consider your source/situation where compliments/complaints are concerned.
sorry for the rambling (OT)....it just seem to fit
ts

 

[bcarso]

Thanks Jeff. Yeah I told him it was me. It wasn't that he thought I wasn't that good---it was that he didn't want to tell me he thought I was good.

He once told me that he was afraid I would wind up playing tenor in a beer and topless bar. One could imagine that sounding good at 19....

Another indulgence off topic: he came home one night having spoken to a friend. They were both going on about their sons being in musical groups and where if anywhere it might lead. The friend and my father were both very doubtful that either son would see any success.

The friend was Stu Krieger. The son, Robbie Krieger; the group of course, soon to be known as The Doors.

 

[ToobieSnack]

WWWWOOWWW!!!
that's a cool story... could bring tears to my eyes
it just goes to show you how close to greatness we could all be.
our forum buddy here(althought he downplays his guitar abilities) could have great success... I hope so ...for all of us
I used to live acroos the street from Creed... yeah i know.. it's not in the same league as the Doors but...
I think their guitar player copped a few of my licks
you can definitely tell the difference between "my own prison" and "human Clay" the first was crap . I liked the second one and learned every song on that note for note..fun stuff to play..(i guess so since it was probably influence by me) my fav was "what if" which is also the title of a great Dixie Dregs album/single.
also: my friend played drums with Jaco Pastorius (freak of a jazz bass player) until Jaco died in a bar fight....genious leveled by stupidity...a damn sad loss.

anyway if you try hard enough for long enough you will succeed

and everything affects everything

If a butterfly beats it's wings in china does it change the weather here? ..probably so

and

YO! forum buddy I hope you are enjoying our rambing as you wire you pick-ups...lol...done yet?...

later
ts

 

[clintrubber]

W.r.t. blending PU's, I've been toying around with (potentially uncool thing ahead given the loacation of the signal path we're here in) active blending.
That's perhaps/usually associated with active knackity- knackity-bass-electronics, but while I prefer basses passive, I've had great results with buffering and then blending for a two-PU guitar (JM). Maybe the difference is that I first run the signal of each PU through the 6m (three conductor) cable and then buffer & blend.
I realize this may be too much trouble for recording a guitar-take now & then, as in the first post, but still, it's an additional option w.r.t. those already given.

Regards,

Peter

 

[ToobieSnack]

hey
here's another option for you that is extremely simple and way more flexable.
if you are just using this guitar to record:
you could put 2 outputs on the guitar and record the signal from both pick-ups on seperate tracks
then do the blending in the mix.
you could probably use a stereo 1/4" jack instead of the mono 1/4".
this way you could even use different processing on each pick-up for a very unique sound. (of your very own)
It would sound like 2 guitars playing the same part.
there's even a few time compression/expansion tricks in a DAW to accetuate the effect. (pushing and pulling the timeing on one or both of the tracks)
cut the track into seperate soundbites and nudge each one just a bit.
it would really thicken the up th sound considerably.
And you wouldn't even have to play the same guitar part twice.
have fun
ts

 

[clintrubber]

Right, that's the full story !
It'll depend on the gtr used, but I happen to get great results with my JM and panning the PU-signals for a certain 'stereo-spread'. The differences in sound of the PU's will determine of course how good this works. Note there's now some re-ampingTM involved, unless you're using multiple amps.

Bye,

Peter

 

[CJ]

I came across this Seymour Duncan Q & A link which is a compilastion of cool articles from Vint. Git. Mag.
sorry for the dredging. not worth a sep. thread.

850 questions answered on pickups:

http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/seymours_q_and_a.shtml