How to get that Neve sound?

[simonsez]

Hai guys, i just finished mixing session in big studio, they have big 24 ch old neve console. I can't find the console type, but i think it's 80xx series. I always wonder how that beast can give very strong of that colour to the sound. Now i want have that sound in my home studio.. :-\. Maybe you guys can recommend me something to built? Is green pre can give me that colour too? or something else? Thanks for your opinion guys....

 

[Svart]

If you want that sound, use a neve console!

Seriously though, I'll go through this again even though the answer is all over Gearslutz as well as this forum.  You just have to search for it..

The "sound" is a complex interaction of the circuits in the console and there is no substitute.

The closest thing you could do is to make a number of neve preamps and a passive summing unit that uses neve lineamps as makeup gain.  You could go as far as building some of the 10XX series preamps with their associated EQ circuits, record to tape and then mix down back through those 10XX strips through your summing box.  That would be the closest thing I can think of.

I suggest 1272 based preamps since they are simple and fairly cheap, relatively speaking.  Building 10xx style pres/EQs are neither cheap nor easy.

Expect to spend a good chunk of money on this endeavor.


EDIT:

Mods, please move this to the Brewery..

 

[JohnRoberts]

Neve circuity is clean and well designed but late (if ever) to abandon transformer input mic premps and outputs. So perhaps transformer coloration (nonlinearity) is what you are hearing. Even then it is not as simple as just using any old transformer.

If you like the sound of a particular well designed piece of gear, perhaps buy one... or not...

JR

 

[Svart]

Absolutely.  I have a number of Neve-ish preamps.  Some use lundahl and sowter transformers, some use carnhill and a couple use marinaire(sp?).

They all sound different.  I think the carnhill reproductions sound the closest to other preamps I've heard while the lundahl/sowter are much different.

 

[simonsez]

Thanks guys, I wonder how a transformer can give that strong colour to the sound,  Yes...i thinks it's because the complex interaction between circuit and transformer, great design. I even not use the onboard eq when doing mix (the console is to old and need potensio replacement i think) ). Ok. i will start with 1272...although doing solid state is not my favorite diy . By the way, that time is the first time i bring out my diy gear to the big studio ( my la2a and varimu), and they're all great!! i prefer my la2a compare to that expensive blue tech compressor for vocal, i prefer my varimu compare to that expensive red 3, Thanks Svart, Thanks John....

 

[MagnetoSound]

The "sound" is a complex interaction of the circuits in the console and there is no substitute.

The closest thing you could do is to make a number of neve preamps and a passive summing unit that uses neve lineamps as makeup gain.

...

I suggest 1272 based preamps since they are simple and fairly cheap, relatively speaking.

Good advice.

In an 80-series console there can be as many as twenty transformers in the signal path between channel input and 'master out', particularly if compressors are employed in channel or group insert points. Undoubtedly, the aggregate effect of all this is what produces the 'Neve sound'.

That said, building a passive summing bus with 1272s on the end of it is a good, relatively affordable, way to get some of that mojo into your mix without resorting to a continuous regime of project building - not to mention the endless patching - which can interrupt your workflow and turn you from a creative musician/producer into a grizzled, grey-haired tech in no time (ask me how I know  ) ...

Original 1272s are still fairly inexpensive when you can find them (I don't mean ebay), and the colouration is noticeable enough.

Of course, if you want to build your own, you will find plenty of help around here. 

 

[simonsez]

Twenty transformer? : Wow!! That's a lot! i always surprise when comparing my mixed through that console vs via my diy summing box :-[. Time for Neve thing i guess ..... :-\

 

[EEMO1]

didn't madriansee just unveil a project that answers this need?

http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=34292.0

  line amp with a fader...

 

[simonsez]

Ok, I'm not familiar with this neve thing :-X, i'm doing mixing, not recording...so i don't need the mic preamp, right? so a couple of ba283 with carnhill trafo is what i need for make up gain in my 16 ch summing box? is that enough to get that colour? or should i built 16 ch? I'm in asia, i think it's hard to find that transformer, any clue? anybody succeed diy-ing that transformer?

 

[rafafredd]

Whatever you do, for that neve sound, don't forget the tantalum capacitors.

 

[Moby]

Ok, I'm not familiar with this neve thing :-X, i'm doing mixing, not recording...so i don't need the mic preamp, right? so a couple of ba283 with carnhill trafo is what i need for make up gain in my 16 ch summing box? is that enough to get that colour? or should i built 16 ch? I'm in asia, i think it's hard to find that transformer, any clue? anybody succeed diy-ing that transformer?

You will probably have some Neve character with couple of BA283's but for sure that will not sound like big vintage console. Adding line drivers based on BA283 in front of Neve like summing box will sound bit closer but if you read carefully all the Neve links and comments if you really want to be close to original you should go with Carnhill's . I don't want to say that winding "Neve like"  output transformer is a big deal, you can probably wind "better" home made TX but Neve sound depends from iron and you should not forget about that. 8)

 

[Di_Sousa]

search also for  Madriansee EZ1290 Mic Pre

 

[simonsez]

Thanks everybody for your suggestion, after searching all about 1272 and found to much , may be i will read all first.....the transformer is the only thing i can't find locally, it's time to me to try get my CC and pay pall account... :-\ .....and get the magic...hmmm....supposed i can do it with tubes.....may be tube version of BA283 ;D

 

[Neeno]

Check this out !
http://www.dangarcia.net/photos.html

 

[MartyMart]

Here's a suggestion if cost is an issue ( well it always will be with neve/carnhill stuff )

Goldenage projects make a little "1073" type clone, without the eq but it has mic/line inputs
and the classic gain stage, all for about 200 Euro's

Just one set of the right Carnhills for the Neve would be almost that much.

It's had great reviews and is well made and nicely boxed.

MM.

 

[RedNoise]

Neve with tubes??Check this one :
http://fr.audiofanzine.com/les-mains-dans-le-cambouis/forums/t.357493,diy-hybride-pultec-neve.html

 

[simonsez]

Ok guys, thanks again....hmmm...that diy console :-\ may be 16ch?  :-\ let me get the curnhill first...

 

[Moby]

Here's a suggestion if cost is an issue ( well it always will be with neve/carnhill stuff )

Goldenage projects make a little "1073" type clone, without the eq but it has mic/line inputs
and the classic gain stage, all for about 200 Euro's

Just one set of the right Carnhills for the Neve would be almost that much.

It's had great reviews and is well made and nicely boxed.

MM.

GA preamps are really best value for money. I tried the box and had an opportunity to compare it to few clones and original one. It doesn't sound exact like Neve but it sounds good enough. I liked the DI option .Build quality inside is satisfying, frontplate and silk print are a bit "Poorman's" but hey , who cares for that price

 

[cuelist]

The transformers make a significant contribution to the character of the 'classic Neve' consoles, no doubt about it.

However, equally significant (yet often overlooked) is the amplifier topology. The single ended circuitry (in the BA283 for example) has a very different harmonic structure than contemporary design from API and others.