How to pick correct output transformer.

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Mbira

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 4, 2004
Messages
2,425
Location
Austin, TX
I'm working on this tube guitar amp. The schematis is here. I am trying to find out what type of output transformer to use. My boss said to add up the resistance of the plates of the two output tubes and theat is the primary resistance of the iron. I'll be using EL84's or maybe 6BQ5's (whichever will give me a cleaner loud sound. That comes to something like 70,000 ohms. I'll use an 8 ohm output. I can't find any hammond iron anywhere near these specs. I feel like my method of calculation must be wrong. Any advice? This is a 15 watt amp. I'll be using an old Siemans (sp) power tranny that is rated at 320-0-320-6.3-5.

Joel
 
Your boss would be right IF you were talking about triodes. With power pentodes, the load resistance is usually quite a bit smaller than the plate resistance.

For a pair of 6BQ5s running at 300-ish B+, an 8k plate-to-plate load is typical. This is a common output transformer type in the 15-to-20W class.

Are you using a tube rectifier? If your power tranny has a rectifier winding, you should. Otherwise, with a 320-0-320 plate winding, your B+ is going to be too high for 6BQ5s.

Oh, by the way, 6BQ5 and EL84 are the same tube.
 
4K to 10K primary. Matchless uses 4K with the 2 and 4 tube el84 models. 8K to 10K is more standard with two 84s IIRC.

Its a guitar amp so don't worry to much. Sometimes a mismatch (in the HiFi world) can sound good with a guitar amp.
 
Thanks guys. Hey Dave, how can I figure this resistance out in the future without bugging you guys? I have the RCA tube handbook here, and I see it has the plate resistance at 38,000 ohms.
With power pentodes, the load resistance is usually quite a bit smaller than the plate resistance.

Is this just a common knowlege thing, or can I deduce this from the above mentioned book? I just told this to my boss, and he's confused and definately wants to learn this stuff too...

Oh yeah-I am using a tube rectifier.

Thanks Dave!

Joel
 
Check out Norman Crowhurst's "Designing Your Own Amplifier" series. Read it, digest it, and your questions will be answered.

http://www.audioxpress.com/resource/audioclass/
 
A lot of the time x-former makers will list iron as "6BQ5 Single ended to voice coil" or "6BQ5 in push pull to speaker" etc, so you do not have to do any math.

I would lower the voltages feeding the AX7's in the preamp stages a bit for a warmer sound, unless your into crunch metal.

A high fidelity transformer sounds real nice with those tubes. I am using one out of an old Fischer stereo. You can find on evilbay.
cj
 
You can go online to www.tubesandmore.com

They have quite a few transformers for various configurations (they even say what configs they are for) and they are only a days shipping to you (I think they are in Tempe, AZ...depending on how far west you are in NM, you might be able to drive there and check out the place.....I order tons of stuff from them and they are a good company to deal with...they have a lot of hard to find stuff, especially for the old radio collector...

Good luck

TP
 
With triodes, single-ended, use Rl= 2*Rp to 5*Rp. Push-pull, go to the lower end, which actually works out near the sum of the plate resistances. Triodes are not too fussy.

Pentodes have a knee. For maximum power output, start at your proposed B+ and draw a line as far up into the knee as possible:

6BQ5.gif


"Optimum" for 6BQ5 seems to be about 1K8 per plate, or 7K2 total primary. However the two other curves are nearly the same power, and give 5K to 10K primary. Since your speaker really varies all over the place "8Ω" being 6Ω to 20+Ω, no great precision is justified. 6K, 8K, and 10K are all standard parts. Each will sound a little different in a specific speaker, but different again in another speaker.

Oh, that chart is computed for 250V B+. If you change both Plate and Screen voltages the same amount, the relative V/I points all shift the same way, so 5K-10K is still the "optimum" for 6BQ5 with higher voltages on both plate and screen.

Note that 350V is over the book rating on 6BQ5: it won't burst, but may die young. This is often done in guitar amps: over-working the tubes gives more power while staying portable, and unlike home radios a good guitarist gets paid enough that tube replacement costs are not a big problem. Do you want a 250 pound Ampex amp that will run 30 years on the same tubes, or a 40-pound Fender that needs $10 of tubes a year? And I think most new-production good-brand 6BQ5 will really eat 350V just fine, since the main market is in over-volted guitar amps.
 
In this build, I'm really going for Clean, Small, and Loud. All three are important, but that is the descending order. I was planning on raising the resistors going into the ax7's by about 10% to compensate for the added voltage.

Sorry-to clarify-when I say "clean" I mean that beautiful tube based clean like I can get on my fender deluxe. I know it's not clean like transistors, but I just love the sound of tubes...Thanks guys for the info...

Still reading...

Joel
 
OK,
Looking at these hammonds, are the "40% screen taps for ultra-linear operation" something I'd be wanting for this amp, or is that more of an audiophile thing? I'm planning on having these transformers (output and power) fairly close together so they can fit in this chassis cage, so maybe I should be getting the pricier one because it's shielded?

All advice is greatly loved.

Joel
 
The screen grid taps are a good thing to have, particularly if you want to try ultralinear mode and possibly end up with an amp somewhat cleaner than yer typical rock 'n roll apparatus. You don't have to use the screen taps; you can leave them disconnected (and, of course, suitably insulated to prevent them shorting to anything).
 
Thanks Dave!

These simple tube designs are very inspiring. We have loads of tubes at work, but never the "right" ones for a particular circuit. I'm getting very tempeted to start figuring out differences of those tubes and try to make similar designs using what's on hand...

I love this place.
Joel
 

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