Inflation hedge and audio

GroupDIY Audio Forum

Help Support GroupDIY Audio Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

john12ax7

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 15, 2010
Messages
2,509
Location
California, US
The future for the US dollar is not looking too good.  Gold is the traditional inflation hedge,  but am curious about other less traditional (and more fun) options. 

What do people think will happen to something like high end audio gear and the audio industry in an inflation environment? Any other outside the box hedges?
 
john12ax7 said:
The future for the US dollar is not looking too good.  Gold is the traditional inflation hedge,  but am curious about other less traditional (and more fun) options. 

What do people think will happen to something like high end audio gear and the audio industry in an inflation environment? Any other outside the box hedges?

I wonder about that, too. The price of vintage synths, samplers, drum machines etc. has been trending up for years and in recent months people even bought a lot of the stuff at prices that are considered outragous. There is fear of stagflation now, so I wonder.

As a hedge a smart collection of a little (relative to your total assets) crypto currency seems like a good idea to me, too.
 
john12ax7 said:
The future for the US dollar is not looking too good.
Predicting the future in markets is even harder than politics.

Lately the USD has been weakening... (making my drum tuner cheaper for international customers). It is hard to use the typical metrics to predict relative currency value. We are experiencing record low interest rates, and massive quantitative easing, be we are not the only nation working these levers. Europe has gone past 0% to negative interest rates, and much of this extra liquidity is fungible helping world economies. 

US spending is worse than ever... Now they are debating how many $T to spend next... The US credit rating has a warning, but is still better than many countries.
Gold is the traditional inflation hedge,  but am curious about other less traditional (and more fun) options. 
For years my modest gold position (to buy ammo with after the zombie apocalypse) sat around -20%, a little over a week ago I increased my gold position, and started a new position in Silver. The Silver is already up >11% and the combined Gold position is up >14%....  I am typically late with such trades so be careful about following...  For the short term silver has more catch up to return to traditional ratios with gold. I would not make a big bet on precious metals but I'm old so trimming common stocks and looking to preserve assets. I only have around 15% in precious metal and almost twice that in cash. The market looks overvalued to me.

Bitcoin is being framed as digital gold, and I think they are due for a halving or whatever that is called. I am still not brave enough to own bitcoin. Probably ok for a small position for a young person, not me. 
What do people think will happen to something like high end audio gear and the audio industry in an inflation environment? Any other outside the box hedges?
If inflation ever takes hold rare artworks should do well. It is hard to understand why we don't have far higher inflation already...

While pretty conventional real estate may return to value as a classic primary investment vehicle. Before COVID housing was falling out of favor as young people flocked to living in cities, but COVID has flipped that bias for a couple reasons. Remote working means you no longer have to live in silicon valley to work for big tech, so Microsoft or Google income, while paying midwest living expenses is a win-win.

There is actually a shortage of wood products as home builders try to keep up with new house demand (the bump in home improvement projects while sheltering in place has also drawn down on lumber supplies.)

=====
To answer what you are hinting at, I am not the right person to opine because I do not value old gear as much as some.  I was pleasantly surprised when another forum member (Douglas Williams) was able to convert an old circa 1930s WE piece into hundreds of dollar (contributed to support this forum). I was about to drag it out to the curb for town trash collection.  I still suspect this is not a slam dunk investment thesis, but perhaps some genuine old classic microphones might appreciate in value over time (clones not so much).

If I was young I might buy a larger house, mortgage interest rates are crazy cheap, and I can imagine COVID reviving the housing market, or not (maybe not so much here in nowhere MS).

Good luck... there is no sure thing, and markets don't go up to the sky... there is a lot of fast money in the stock markets trading stocks to satisfy their gambling jones (like robin hood, factional shares, etc)... The recent rise in markets has given these inexperienced traders a false sense of security. When they finally sour on the markets there could be a noticeable contraction when they pivot to other forms of gambling.

JR

PS: These new day traders are the same people that bid up the price of Bankrupt Hertz stock... The Hertz bankruptcy court approved a $1B new stock issue to sop up the (illogical ) demand (in bankruptcy equity value goes to $0). Cooler heads at the SEC squashed the new stock issue for a bankrupt company. 
 
JohnRoberts said:
It is hard to understand why we don't have far higher inflation already...

I don't know how inflation is counted but how ever it's done doesn't reflect reality. My favorite metric is the price of a candy bar. They are about 25% higher in price then they were seven years ago. Same with rent, groceries and other basics like soap and shampoo. I have no idea how they manage to claim there is no inflation.
 
Gear is already way overvalued. I'm always browsing through Ebay and Reverb just for kicks (I don't do "social" media) and the prices for stuff are just hilarious. If you can build an 1176 for 1/10th of what a vintage one costs, something is very wrong. I could understand 3-5x for mojo value but if you pay 10x, you must be a trust fund baby with nothing better to do.
 
Gold said:
I don't know how inflation is counted but how ever it's done doesn't reflect reality. My favorite metric is the price of a candy bar. They are about 25% higher in price then they were seven years ago. Same with rent, groceries and other basics like soap and shampoo. I have no idea how they manage to claim there is no inflation.
Of course there is inflation but the central bankers have trouble realizing their 2% inflation target.

Some things get cheaper (like gasoline) while perhaps your candy bars go up...

I expect far more inflation...  Historically low unemployment (before Covid shut downs) was putting upward pressure on wages. The $600 unemployment payments likewise are putting some artificial upward pressure on wages.

JR
 
squarewave said:
Gear is already way overvalued. I'm always browsing through Ebay and Reverb just for kicks (I don't do "social" media) and the prices for stuff are just hilarious. If you can build an 1176 for 1/10th of what a vintage one costs, something is very wrong. I could understand 3-5x for mojo value but if you pay 10x, you must be a trust fund baby with nothing better to do.
Consumer gear pricing seems more rational... I recently purchased a new 65" TV monitor for <$400. That did not seem very high to me, and I'm cheap.

JR
 
JohnRoberts said:
Some things get cheaper (like gasoline) while perhaps your candy bars go up...

Gasoline is volatile (ha!). Prices go up, prices go down. I've never seen a candy bar come down in price once it went up. Same with rent.
 
Wine has always seemed like a good bet to me. I'm taking about the (really) good stuff, not supermarket wine.  Hard to store good wine properly though.

And vintage cars.  Probably quite a high barrier to entry in this field haha.

But as much as lower and middle income demographics seem increasingly squeezed these days, there still appears to be a healthy market for the kind of stuff that only the eye-wateringly wealthy can afford.
 
3% a year is about 25% over 7 years.  The problem is the stated CPI gets changed and manipulated to understate the issue.  Real inflation is much worse,  as can be seen in housing,  education,  healthcare,  and asset prices.

I would expect rare and vintage gear to continue to appreciate in value since it is no longer made.  Especially things like instruments.

For gold I think the bull run is just getting started and will continue buying.  Crypto could be interesting. Wine would be nice, but it doesn't last long here,  especially when there is pasta involved.  Heard a story about artisanal French wine makers not being able to sell their supply,  lots of quality wine is instead getting boiled down to make hand sanitizer.
 
On crypto,

Things a lot of people don't get about crypto is just how many additional 'levers' there are compared to traditional markets. 3rd gen crypto (a vague term, some just say 2nd gen that can properly scale) have all kinds of ways to modify the rate of purchase, weight transactions & processing power, proof of work, proof of stake, and rules for smart contracts.  DeFi, or decentralized finance is a cool subgroup of crypto to take a look at. There's a lot of growth potential in this area, and it's going to be a big part of getting altcoins and other tokens based off Etherium to actually prove useful.  There's a world of dapps coming too, or decentralized apps that will be built on smart contracts. If you can make a metric of something and then find someone who would appreciate knowing how the metric stands in relation to persons, places, or things, they'll be a dapp for it.

I don't know how inflation is counted but how ever it's done doesn't reflect reality.

The US credit rating has a warning, but is still better than many countries.

Yeah when the company used to rate strength has incentive to keep it looking good, we can bet there's a finger on the scales somewhere.  And the stock market is looking blind to reality in ways I never thought possible. Fiscal cliffs n all, nevermind cronoa-chan.
 
For crypto,  do any of them have any advantage over the other in terms of store of value, as a stable value of money for transactions? Or is it still mostly speculation at this point?

In terms of general economics I encourage everyone to look at the M1 money supply and then compare to the stock market.  It should be apparent what has gotten inflated over the last decade (much to to the detriment of the average worker).
 
Don't know what will happen to hi-end audio, specially vintage gear in the future, I'll tell you what thou, I have the opportunity to be around really young people, I'm talking 18 year olds, they are all about digital, software, ITB and the latest technollogy. The whole analog, vintage gear movement might just be a generational thing destined to die out in the future, sounds incredible but thats my prediction based on observation.
 
user 37518 said:
The whole analog, vintage gear movement might just be a generational thing destined to die out in the future, sounds incredible but thats my prediction based on observation.

You may be right - but when I have come across such opinion and workflow it nearly always comes clear at some time that that sort of selectivity is primarily from an economic perspective - and that, if you hand them somethinbg analogue and affordable, their minds are easily changed.

YMMW, off course - but I haven't seen any signs yet of the genuine shift in culture that I expected because of cheap and easy digital..

/Jakob E.
 
john12ax7 said:
For crypto,  do any of them have any advantage over the other in terms of store of value, as a stable value of money for transactions? Or is it still mostly speculation at this point?
I am not aware of any reliable backing for value of crypto. Arguably it was invented to provide an alternate currency that governments can not manipulate (inflate).

That said I am a firm believer in block chain technology, and still own some fin tech stocks (like square, paypal, now they seem like old timers).
In terms of general economics I encourage everyone to look at the M1 money supply and then compare to the stock market.  It should be apparent what has gotten inflated over the last decade (much to to the detriment of the average worker).
Yes, but many workers with retirement accounts are benefitting from the stock market growth. Home owners also have benefitted massively from the hard asset inflation engineered to bail out millions of underwater mortgage holders during the last housing bubble.

In my judgement we still haven't unwound the massive (world wide) liquidity injection that started in 2007-8. For more than a decade the stock market and house prices has been fueled by central banks. A whole generation of traders only know this easy money economy. Too easy borrowing has distorted many private and public business decisions.

I am an incurable optimist but do not see this ending well. I have been trimming my personal stock holdings, and wish I knew a good safe store of value.  I don't plan to live long enough to ride out a market collapse, and I'm not smart enough to time it. The only good news is that no government want to be responsible for stopping this party, so I expect more of the same for the immediate future.

JR
 
user 37518 said:
The whole analog, vintage gear movement might just be a generational thing destined to die out in the future, sounds incredible but thats my prediction based on observation.

It’s also true that most buyers of vinyl are young people buying new releases. These aren’t ‘most kids’ but music lovers. Casual listeners want convenience. Music lovers want an experience. 
 
As an owner of a small studio that is in the enviable position of not having to make a living from the studio business I own a lot of "desirable vintage gear" especially mics. Yes it has mostly appreciated in value based on published prices but...... To quote my dear old Dad "something is worth what someone is willing to pay you for it". I have noticed a real pull back when it comes to having that borderline disposable cash for a compressor, mic pre or even mic especially with all the plug-ins and modeling tech available.

Lets hope that these things all hold their respective value. Lastly good old real estate seems like the usual safe bet if you can stay in for a bit also if it is suburban right now you are sitting in the good seats!
 
For crypto,  do any of them have any advantage over the other in terms of store of value, as a stable value of money for transactions? Or is it still mostly speculation at this point?

Stablecoins are an entire group of altcoins, some hold value by their association with precious metals. For example, Tethercoin links value to traditional fiat.

Unlike traditional stock fundamentals, the goal is to look for emerging ico's built on mathematical, logistical, or market opportunity/utility proofs. Those that make the cut can be said to have fundamentals for growth, and tend to rise on exchanges via their market cap. Those without market cap tend to have unproven methodologies for growth, and stay buried, low in trading volume as a result. Right now there's a lot of junk out there. However, there are some coins coming out designed to measure other coins' genuineness- some are categorized as 'oracles' for their ability to verify contracts, proof of work/stake, deal in arbitrage, or confirm coins' methodologies and whitepapers are in fact real or useful.

Edit: Might be a good idea to take a look at Etherium or coins that are trying to improve upon ETH's scalability and transaction speed/fee issues.
 
Gold said:
It’s also true that most buyers of vinyl are young people buying new releases. These aren’t ‘most kids’ but music lovers. Casual listeners want convenience. Music lovers want an experience.

Absolutely agree with you, with kids what I've found is that they feel at home with a mouse and a keyboard, they feel weird when you hand them a fader, of course, after some time they might prefer the fader, but kids these days are all about technollogy.
 
Back
Top