Is there a common cause for rising antisemitism and historic racism?

[cyrano]

I have definitely felt a change in the attitudes of most of the people around me as well, like many others in this thread have described — transphobia is the one I personally have felt the most, but racism, sexism and general prejudice have become dramatically more prevalent, seemingly only within the last 5 years or so. Paradoxically, it also seems to be happening (at least in my experience) a lot more with younger people.

The main reason that people have prejudices, at least in my view, is because it's easy. If you've been doing something your whole life, and then you come to find that it does in fact affect someone or something negatively, it's much easier to blame the person or thing for being affected by something that, to you, has no consequence, than it is to reorganise your whole worldview around something which, at least to you, seems to have very little impact.

I am transgender. I have had my fair share of crap jokes made about the way I act or the way I dress, which have ranged from slightly questionable to outright vitriolic. I, as well as (in my experience) the vast majority of other trans people in the world, can generally deal with the jokes. What we care about is being able to engage with society as easily and comfortably as everyone else (that often does include the right not to have crap jokes thrown at you for things about you which you can't change, but I digress). However, seemingly entirely within the past 5 years or so, the trans community has found itself firmly within the crosshairs of the full force of the far-right political machine, enduring a seemingly never-ending torrent of vitriol, at a scale which has arguably not been seen in this century or the latter half of the last.

This is because, in typical fashion, the kinds of shock-jocks and politicians who are most interested in extracting money and support from fanatical citizens have found transgender people — as a group with a very new place in the public consciousness, with problems and lived experiences often pretty incomprehensible to the average person — to be a fantastic scapegoat.

These aforementioned shock-jocks and politicians tend to hit it big whenever public discontent is at its highest. We have come out of a global pandemic and barrelled directly into a worldwide recession and cost-of-living crisis. People's lives are generally worse now, and to have someone in your ear blaming it on a nebulous group of ostensible villains can be, in a strange and horrible way, quite comforting.

This is also my gripe with the term "woke" — "woke" is used largely as a nonsense-word catch-all term for "people who disagree with me" by the kind of people who make a buck off other people agreeing with every word they say.

Are you in NSW, by any chance?

I have relatives in Australia, most in NSW. Several have left the country because of the rise of corruption, crime and fascism. It seems to be the worse in NSW.

 

[jabe]

Surely you aren't selecting a specific high-crime area to represent a race of people?

We certainly are.

Well, there you go. Just gonna let that sit there.

 

[fallout]

Let me fix that for you.

I though we were discussing racism.

We certainly are..

 

[JohnRoberts]

There isn't much research into natural distrust of strangers. Some have it, some don't. What was shown, mainly from very young children lost in the woods for long periods, is that they don't seem to have a natural distrust of strangers. On the contrary, they also have no distrust of dangerous animals. It also seems these animals don't necessarily eat those children. Althrough history, children have been raised by predatory animals. And there also are numerous observations of animals "adopting" babies from other species.

It has been several decades since I read books on this subject while some more recent books broached some of these aspects in passing.

I vaguely recall reading "the naked ape" by Desmond Morris back in the 1960s. IIRC there was one or more scenes in 2001 space odyssey that seemed to refer to early hominid development as described by Morris.

So I reckon that children who are afraid of strangers, have learned that from their parents or other adults.

or personal experience. Children are mostly innocent blank slates. The learned distrust of strangers refers to hunter-gatherer communities who suffered bad outcomes from being too welcoming to some strangers. The DNA from too friendly early hominids did not survive to pass along.

It's a bit like swimming. If a baby is young enough, he'll probably instinctively know how to swim if you put him into the water.

A baby will likely instinctively try not to drown. I recall being given actual swimming lessons, not that I needed them to survive growing up in Northern NJ.

Fear of water comes later and is a real hindrance to learn how to swim.

Fear is a hinderance to many things, like learning.
====
Sorry I do not claim to know everything but I have read multiple books on related topics. I much prefer talking about this stuff than the snarky pejorative that some still prefer to spew around here.

JR

 

[jabe]

Also consider how much respect for the police (and funding) deteriorated since then.

Not to digress too much, but police funding is as high as ever. Despite 'defunding' claims, police funding has increased in many US cities

I think these different interpretations of his remarks are illustrative. If you ask anyone point blank if racism is bad, nearly all will say yes. But for some, an example of racism would be when the police disproportionately stop and seach certain racial groups... while others will claim that pointing out that fact is the "real" racism.

 

[jabe]

Let me fix that for you.

I asked a direct question. You gave an immediately reply.
My point still stands: if one's reaction to a discussion about ending bigotry is to chime in with why they feel justified in fearing a minority, actually, self-examination is in order.

 

[living sounds]

or personal experience. Children are mostly innocent blank slates. The learned distrust of strangers refers to hunter-gatherer communities who suffered bad outcomes from being too welcoming to some strangers. The DNA from too friendly early hominids did not survive to pass along.

There is no such thing as a blank slate. Children go through developmental phases of trust for anyone and distrust, not only for strangers but also people close to them (even a parent, usually the father).

Distrust may be learned, but what is learned does not enter the DNA. Genetically, individuals fall on spectra on all kinds of parameters, and their survival differs in how well adapted they are to the environment in which they are.

There are also epigenetics, in children of people who lived in highly stressfull times genes may be expressed in a way that highten alertness, anxiety and other reactions of this kind.

 

[living sounds]

Obama could have avoided this whole kerfuffle if he had just said the Cambridge police were rapists and murderers, but some were probably good people.

And some were not - in fact - people.

 

[fallout]

I asked a direct question. You gave an immediately reply.
My point still stands: if one's reaction to a discussion about ending bigotry is to chime in with why they feel justified in fearing a minority, actually, self-examination is in order.

Comprehension apparently isnt your strong suit.

Stop projecting. I don't fear a minority, I just use common sense.

Also, racism works both ways but is usually ignored. Understanding this goes a long way if you want to 'end bigotry'. I have zero tolerance for people who have an issue with me because of the color of my skin.

 

[JohnRoberts]

There is no such thing as a blank slate. Children go through developmental phases of trust for anyone and distrust, not only for strangers but also people close to them (even a parent, usually the father).

In fact one of the recent books I read is titled "The blank slate" by Steven Pinker.

I will not debate you about how evolution works.

Children are born without any childhood experiences. They begin accumulating experiences from day one.

Distrust may be learned, but what is learned does not enter the DNA. Genetically, individuals fall on spectra on all kinds of parameters, and their survival differs in how well adapted they are to the environment in which they are.

Of course not, but how inexperienced humans react to stressors can vary. Over long time durations the more successful reactions gain influence in our genetic code by reproduction (natural selection).

There are also epigenetics, in children of people who lived in highly stressfull times genes may be expressed in a way that highten alertness, anxiety and other reactions of this kind.

That is a short term phenomenon, but what is this gene expression in reaction to stressors but genetic programming?

JR

 

[living sounds]

In fact one of the recent books I read is titled "The blank slate" by Steven Pinker.

Good book, I recommended it here several times.

That is a short term phenomenon, but what is this gene expression in reaction to stressors but genetic programming?

It does not become part of the DNA.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Good book, I recommended it here several times.

+1

It does not become part of the DNA.

That's where natural selection comes in. DNA suffers from mutations and micro evolution over time. If these changes make a difference that improves survival rates the changed DNA becomes part of our genetic blueprint or programming. If the change reduces survival rate, it dies off with the individual. Of course this all plays out over millions of years and across many individual mutations.

JR

 

[boji]

"It does not become part of the DNA."

Please explain? Thanks.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fearful-memories-passed-down/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2682215/

 

[JohnRoberts]

Please explain? Thanks.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fearful-memories-passed-down/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2682215/

That's interesting... the studies suggest that changes in gene expression (not changes to the actual genes) can be passed down from generation to generation.

The headline may be overstating the phenomenon (memories passed down) but it sounds interesting.

JR

 

[AnalogPackrat]

That's interesting... the studies suggest that changes in gene expression (not changes to the actual genes) can be passed down from generation to generation.

The headline may be overstating the phenomenon (memories passed down) but it sounds interesting.

JR

My friend and housemate in grad school was a microbiology major working on his PhD in the field of genetically manipulated bacteria. We had many interesting discussions about our disparate studies and I distinctly remember him explaining this theory. This would have been somewhere around 1988-90. I think there had just been some research verifying it at that time. Intriguing stuff.

 

[cyrano]

Distrust may be learned, but what is learned does not enter the DNA.

There are also epigenetics, in children of people who lived in highly stressfull times genes may be expressed in a way that highten alertness, anxiety and other reactions of this kind.

These two seem to contradict each other.

AFAIK, some learned abilities do enter in DNA. It's a mystery why some do and some don't, just like the 32 monkey theory has been observed in the field many times, but nobody wants to research it since it sounds too weird. Weird, as in suggesting there is a thing like telepathy.

 

[JohnRoberts]

These two seem to contradict each other.

indeed the human machine is complicated.

AFAIK, some learned abilities do enter in DNA. It's a mystery why some do and some don't, just like the 32 monkey theory has been observed in the field many times, but nobody wants to research it since it sounds too weird. Weird, as in suggesting there is a thing like telepathy.

I tried to search the "32 monkey theory". All I found was "infinite monkey" theorem. I vaguely recall hearing that described, mostly in jokes as 100 monkeys with typewriters.

JR

 

[crazydoc]

I think he's referring to this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundredth_monkey_effect

 

[living sounds]

These two seem to contradict each other.

That's interesting... the studies suggest that changes in gene expression (not changes to the actual genes) can be passed down from generation to generation.

That's what I was referring to, epigenetic changes are heritable traits that do not change the DNA sequence. There are a number of mechanisms for it. Coded functions are switched on or off because of certain stimuli.

AFAIK, some learned abilities do enter in DNA. It's a mystery why some do and some don't, just like the 32 monkey theory has been observed in the field many times, but nobody wants to research it since it sounds too weird. Weird, as in suggesting there is a thing like telepathy.

Learned abilities do not enter the DNA sequence, there is no mechanism for it.

 

[JohnRoberts]

That's what I was referring to, epigenetic changes are heritable traits that do not change the DNA sequence. There are a number of mechanisms for it. Coded functions are switched on or off because of certain stimuli.


Learned abilities do not enter the DNA sequence, there is no mechanism for it.

We agree...

Another aspect is during pregnancy when some of the mother's endocrine systems share(?) with the fetus.
https://academic.oup.com/edrv/article/27/2/141/2355234?login=false

The regulation of normal human fetal growth involves many multidirectional interactions between the mother, placenta, and fetus.

another factor where mother could influence babies epigenetic response.

BUT it's complicated.....


JR