LD capsules - center-terminated vs. edge-terminated?

[Consul]

This question got asked (by someone else) in another thread, and it kinda got missed.

What are the differences in sonic quality between center-terminated and edge-terminated capsules?

The famous U47/67/87 family, as I understand it, uses a center-terminated capsule. I would think this would be responsible for its scooped midrange to a great degree. If this is true, that would mean I would want to avoid center-terminated designs in the digital age, due to their more hyped-up high end.

Right? Or am I way off?

 

[tommytones]

I wish I could answer... :? I too am interested by this. I saw your question in the other thread but as you said, it seems to have been overlooked.

 

[Marik]

[quote author="Consul"]This question got asked (by someone else) in another thread, and it kinda got missed.

What are the differences in sonic quality between center-terminated and edge-terminated capsules?
[/quote]

Consul,

Since in edge-terminated capsule there is no center support for the diaphragm, it usually has more extended both LF and HF range.

 

[Consul]

[quote author="Marik"]Since in edge-terminated capsule there is no center support for the diaphragm, it usually has more extended both LF and HF range.[/quote]

So it's the exact opposite of what I said?

If I don't want a very bright microphone, which would I want to choose?

Thanks for the input!

 

[Gus]

That is a very hard to answer question!

With the 67 and 87 ther is a feedback network that eqs high and low.

Then there is the eq caused by the grill design. That is one of the reason I believe neumann protects the trademark on the 87,67,49 style grill. I don't understand how it is a trademark. IMO it should have been a design patent with a 17 year life.

Round shape grills have different eqs.

Then you have the capsule response

And then if it has a transformer you have the core type with it BH curves etc. and winding style.

I have installed the same capsule in different grills, sound different.

Think of it like the capsule eq+grill eq+electronics eq and maybe transformer eq.

Then you have the two major designs one AKG uses and one Neumann uses. you could have a center akg and no center neumann IIUC

There are so may things going on I don't think it can be center or non center.

 

[Consul]

Well, of course it all plays together, but surely the capsule termination is no minor issue. Center-terminating is essentially placing a damping mass in the center of the diaphragm, after all.

 

[Gus]

Yes! but the air mass is greater than the diaphragm mass >4times IIRC.

What I am trying to say is that both styles of capsule can be adjusted. And the two styles tend to be used in different shaped grills.

 

[Consul]

So, if I choose to embark on the quest of making a G7 microphone, I need to choose what grill-shape I'll make before I get into which capsule design to use?

Yes, this line of questioning has a method to the madness. :green:

 

[Gus]

I don't know what to say I still have much to learn!

Let me point out that some very nice microphones with both style capsules use round grills. ELA M251 and the VM1

 

[Consul]

Well, as I recall, Jakob's original G7 was a round grill with a CK12 capsule, which is the AKG edge-terminated, correct? I'm just wondering how to avoid making something that's super-bright.

 

[Consul]

Yes, I know. I'm asking for the world. :green: I'm sorry...

I'm just a guy trying to learn stuff! :grin:

 

[Guest]

OK, here are some thoughts. The condenser is esentially a capacitor. It changes capacitance as acoustic vibrations make the diaphram move. The rest of the circuit is set up to sense these changes, anplify the signal and send it along it's way.

As long as the capsule is making these capacitive changes accurately in response to the acoustic signal, the edge vs center termination is probably the least of the factors affecting what sound you get. In the capsule, more important factors are:

type of diaphram material.

Placement of the little acoustic holes in the backplate.

Capsule resonance chamber.

etc, etc, etc

I'm sure the tremination makes some difference, but I think it is very small with respect to the overall performance of the microphone.

 

[shimon]

if you wanted a muddier, sound for acoustic guitar, one that you don't hear the pick fighting with the strings at the forefront of your sound but rather much further back. what would you choose ck12 or k87? (edge vs center)

 

[soapfoot]

David Bock has written a bit on the subject:

http://www.soundeluxmics.com/pdf/condenser_mics.pdf

 

[gyraf]

..for hiding such transient stuff, I'd reach for a good dynamic in stead. MD421 perhaps?

 

[shimon]

i've heard that mic, it is good, you're right. but it was md421u, which i think is an older mic that is not made anymore.