Marinair vs Morite Winding Co Neve L01166 Output Transformers

[stockrock]

I understand Neve worked with two companies to make its LO1166 output transformers - Marinair, and Morite Winding Co.

If you have a couple of these in hand, loose, is there a way to tell which is which? And if so, is there a way to date them?

The only markings are the numbers and the L01166/A designation.

I attached one pic, but I have more.  One theory is that the Mullard Tropical Fish C180 cap was discontinued in the 1960s, so if it was installed along with this transformer, chances are that transfomer was made in the 1960s. And I believe I read that early on Marinair was the sole supplier of LO1166 transformers, and that the additional maker only came on later. So maybe the Tropical Fish says that that one is a Marinair-made LO1166. 

By the way, looks like Amethyst Designs hired a former Morite manager and is making Morite transformers again. But I contacted them and they do not currently have any information on the LO1166. To make one today they told me they “would require a full electrical / mechanical specification,” which they clearly do not have.



Thank you!

 

[rackmonkey]

I saved an ancient thread from a forum (maybe GS?) where Geoff Tanner talked about the history of these. He said that the Marinair-made units had part numbers beginning with “T...”.  He spoke of another manufacturer but refused to name them by name, which was probably Morite. He didn’t say what those part numbers looked like.

St Ives also made those many years later. They use the “VT...” model number (which Carnhill, who bought St Ives, still uses).

If it doesn’t have a part number, I guess it could be Morite, although Geoff didn’t state that outright.

Rascal7 on this forum (not sure if he still lurks around here) is a Neve expert and may know (Joel, you read me?). CJ is the transformer guru and may know as well. But if he hasn’t spoken up by now he may not have the answer.

 

[stockrock]

Actually, St. Ives never made the LO1166 , per Geoff Tanner. I think you're thinking of the input transformers - T1444, T1454 - those Marinair T codes are the codes for the input transformers, which I believe were off the shelf per Mr. Tanner.

The LO1166 is a gapped output transformer that was designed by Neve engineers and made by two companies - Marinair, and apparently Morite, but not St. Ives.  Geoff never confirmed Morite, but it makes sense. Geoff did specifically state that St Ives never made the LO1166.

 

[rackmonkey]

You’re right. I was thinking of the inputs.

BT

 

[CJ]

And you don't have to be Joe Mannix to know that Carnhill also made the 1166,

 

[stockrock]

And you don't have to be Joe Mannix to know that Carnhill also made the 1166,

No, Carnhill’s history is they bought St Ives. Neither Carnhill nor St Ives ever made the LO1166 for Neve, and have never had the full spec from Neve.

Geoff Tanner has made this very clear over the years.

 

[Whoops]

I understand Neve worked with two companies to make its LO1166 output transformers - Marinair, and Morite Winding Co.

If you have a couple of these in hand, loose, is there a way to tell which is which? And if so, is there a way to date them?

Just saw this thread today.

I worked recently on a rackup of Neve modules, that has 2 output transformers that looked different and older than the vintage LO1166 I'm used too,
they also sounded different, sounded a bit darker and had a bit lower volume.

You can see those transformers in this photo, they are the 2 on the left, being the 2 of the right the ones I normally see and the ones that match your photo.



The transformers on the left look older, have much less varnish impregnation the the others and the Pinout board has a darker brown color also.
Both transformers are originals from Neve modules but they look like they were manufactured by different companies.
Maybe the ones on the left were made by Morite Winding Co and the others by Marinair or vice-versa.
If I remember correctly Geof Tanner said somewhere that there was even a third company that manufactured these transformers for Neve but he didn't want to disclosure the name as they were still in business.

When I tested the Preamps, the first 2 channels sounded different, lower volume and darker sounding, I changed boards and transformers, and that sound difference always followed the output transformer.
I did some sweep frequency tests and the high end roll of of the transformers in the left is quite noticeable, it starts at 2Khz:



An this is the same sweep with the transformers on the right, no high end roll of, it's actually pretty flat from 30hz to 20khz:

 

[Winetree]

Found this picture

 

[ubxf]

What about Belclere did they make a version of LO 1166 ?