Modification Happy

[BYacey]

I see a lot of posts urging modification of existing gear before an evaluation of performance (or lack of) is done. I am certainly not above modifying gear to suit my needs, but it seems silly to modify something just for the sake of modifying. In my opinion a mod should only be done to correct a problem that has been determined; and then modified in an intelligent manner to correct the problem.

I have a friend who knows just enough about electronics to be dangerous; he decided to change the caps in the passive tone control circuit of his tube guitar amp because he read someplace a certain color and brand of capacitor sounds better. Well, this might be so - but how did he determine that his amp really needed this mod, and was an evaluation done in an intelligent manner?
Did he hear a significant difference or were his ears and the article he read fooling him into hearing something different?

I guess what I am trying to say is that some thought should be put into what we are doing before lifting a soldering iron.

 

[radiance]

Yes, you're right. In my case I want to build something just for the sake of building it. When I look at the total costs of the project I'm cheaper of buying the same unit second hand on Evilbay.

Well, this is not the same point here but still..

 

[BYacey]

Exactly Jaakko,
But I think there are a lot of people making unecessary or counter-productive mods thinking this is a good way to get an education in electronics. It's very important to know how and why before starting any undertaking of this kind; or anything for that matter. Some mods can even compromise electrical safety of some gear if the person is operating with limited knowledge.

 

[Guest]

I have spent a decent amount of time with my mic mods... changing one component, listening, putting a different component in the same place, listening again... It takes alot of time. That, I think, can be a great education or at least it is helping me to see what components/circuits, etc I like. But I agree if you can't hear a problem, theres no reason to slice and dice... I think that one thing that alot of people probably don't do is to sit down and really look at the circuit and what the various components are doing. I am still struggling with this in alot of circuits, but thats part of the learning game. Anyway... there's my 2 cents....

 

[BYacey]

I agree there is a lot to be learned from experimenting, but some knowledge is necessary. Someone without any technical knowledge could easily be duped into replacing the line fuse with a heavier one. This isn't likely to make an audible difference...

 

[Svart]

generally i do agree with this statement but i'll play the devil's advocate so that we might get some discussion. Ultimately this leads to personal preferrence which is neither right nor wrong.

so how would you know if something would be worth modding without doing so? You can sit and ponder and do *ideal* calculations or sketch circuits all day long, but in the end is the design worth it? You might be inclined to say yes or no after looking at it, but there are so many variables in modern circuitry that almost anything can have a profound effect on the outcome. would you mod a mixer that was full of surface mount parts? why not? how about if those were something terrible according to the datasheet? what if those were through-hole? how about if they were cheap fairchild 5532s? signetics 5532s? how about if the resistors were carbon comp?

what I'm getting at is that we will always want something better from what we have.

We also already know certain parts can and will improve performance in a given circuit. why not replace them if you are willing? some parts like resistors may not seem like a big deal but after the audio goes through 1-10k of them it might be very bad. same with opamps and other parts.

so radical changes might not give great results but refraining from changing a few parts with better parts you might have laying around because someone told you that you're wasting your time? only you can tell that in the end. I say give it a try and see. mod a few channels and compare to unmodded channels.

 

[pucho812]

IMFHO I think modding is great. Its a great way to learn. Obviously I will not attempt moding anything that has huge amounts of voltage like a power amp but I see nothing wrong with moding a cheap mic or piece of gear to see if you can make it sound better, replacing a cheap componant with a better one, or anything of the sort. Moding to me is a way to bring something personal to the table as an engineer. Most people I have in the studio tend to want to use the DIY stuff because it is different.
You never really know until you try. so why not. To mod just to mod I say BS why bother to Mod with the hopes of achieving something pleaseing to you I say go for it.

 

[soundguy]

there's one word which can pretty much sum up this kind of thing for a certain percentage of people with internet access: bandwagon. Its much more prevalent with recording technique and other stuff, but people are just not willing to experiment with their own ideas before jumping on the bandwagon of someone else's ideas. Sadly this applies to modding gear before actually trying to use it in a recording session to see if it fits their needs. Most people scapegoat thier gear anyway, not wanting to try to improve their technique biting onto some belief that changing a resistor is the solution to all their problems. Im not trying to discourage people from modding **** by any stretch, just a general observation of how the internet has impacted people's creativiity, thats all. It goes both ways of course, look at all the wonderful people here doing amazing things, but everything swings both ways...

dave

 

[pucho812]

there's one word which can pretty much sum up this kind of thing for a certain percentage of people with internet access: bandwagon. Its much more prevalent with recording technique and other stuff, but people are just not willing to experiment with their own ideas before jumping on the bandwagon of someone else's ideas. Sadly this applies to modding gear before actually trying to use it in a recording session to see if it fits their needs. Most people scapegoat thier gear anyway, not wanting to try to improve their technique biting onto some belief that changing a resistor is the solution to all their problems. Im not trying to discourage people from modding **** by any stretch, just a general observation of how the internet has impacted people's creativiity, thats all. It goes both ways of course, look at all the wonderful people here doing amazing things, but everything swings both ways...

:thumb:

 

[gyraf]

Dave,

I think you're right on here.

But there just may be another important reason for wanting a modification.

And that is legitimization. If you buy a cheap piece of gear you are subjectively not really allowed to think that it sounds great - even if it does. Adding a mod will re-allow you to think whatever you want - it somehow sets your opinion free. And this, I think, is the main reason for the widespread Modification Happiness amongst people that knows enough electronics to be dangerous.

I'm pretty sure that this is done on a commercial basis as well - lending legitimacy to stuff that actually is good in itself, but is expected to be bad because of a low price or a chineese origin.

This is also why I started e.g. the Behringer ADA8000 modification thread - it bothers me to see an extremely high value-for-money, perfectly useable unit discredited just because of a brand name. Spice it up a bit with a mod, and it will have a chance of getting a fair evaluation.

And though you may claim that you give a fair evaluation to all gear you try, my experience is that this is an extremely narrow and difficult path to follow..

Jakob E.

 

[chrissugar]

"But there just may be another important reason for wanting a modification.
And that is legitimization."


Legitimization is the oposite of Behringerization? :grin:

chrissugar

 

[soundguy]

[quote author="buttachunk"]i guess you could call anything here 'bandwagon', not neccessarily just improving exsisting gear...[/quote]

I dont see too many bandwagon folks here, its more of that "I heard on the internet that you could mod this" or "my friend told me you can change so and so" or "I read in a magazine this makes this better" as opposed to someone puttting in hours on a piece of gear to conclude it doesnt work in their arsenal and then spend the time to try to improve thta gear. I think most of the people here understand why they dont like something and at least have a direction in mind when trying to modify something. Most "bandwagon" folks are just hung up on the idea of "better" as if to suggest that a U47 is "better" than a sm57 all the time. Bandwagon thinking. Im not trying to take a shot at newbies or anything, just describing what Ive been noticing lately.

dave

 

[woodensoul]

[quote author="soundguy"]but people are just not willing to experiment with their own ideas before jumping on the bandwagon of someone else's ideas. [/quote]
Once I had some knowledge I discovered a well of musical and production ideas that I still have not begun to explore. most of my crazy friends and I would stay away from any bandwagon. That said, you have to learn how to play James Jamerson, Larry Graham and Bootsy Collins before you know anything about grooving...
I am no stranger to spending hours toiling over a musical or production idea or experiment and being really excited about it and discovering it just doesn't work in the end. The process often is worth a failed end product. Especially when you learn what not to do: something one drummer for Rashaan Roland Kirk ( name drop :wink: ) told me we must always listen for ( that and what TO do ).
Think John Coltrane too.


DIY audio for me is certainly following that path "learn great technique and learn by imitation so you can go crazy later with your own schitt..."
And I always gotta thank the amazing pool of innovators around here!
-steve