moral hazard

[Lee_M]

But I wonder why the focus is always on stuff like this instead of the hundreds of times huge sums have been wasted by Republicans, e.g. to subsidize bad businesses, bail out banks, unncessary tax cuts, for profit wars etc... what about displaying that beautiful, beautiful outrage when these things happen?

College students don't make enough political donations.

 

[Matador]

College students don't make enough political donations.

That, and we hate those "coastal, educated elites" just for good measure.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

That, and we hate those "coastal, educated elites" just for good measure.

Not wanting know-it-all coastal elites to control everything is not hate. It just might be common sense. Or maybe you agree with guys like Bloomberg about how easy farming is. What do a bunch of hillbilly redneck hicks know about anything important, right?

 

[Matador]

The point was that a hyper-politicized govt will tend to produce short-lived policies.

We've been gazing through this particular looking glass for the better part of 30-40 years. The complaint is now that Biden is undoing Trump's policies, just as Trump undid those of Obama's (and does anyone remember McConnell's quote of "my job is to make Obama a one term President", ostensibly because his job wasn't to help advance legislation that benefitted the American people), and Obama (and I wish he'd gone farther) undid those of Bush, etc.

Until we can figure out a way to incentivize compromise it will be this way for the foreseeable future. As with many things, it may just need to break before there is political will to fix it.

 

[hodad]

It took me a while to figure out what exactly was going on, but something seemed odd about my shopping trips to the local super market and other local stores. It appears that the town was a wealthy suburb of Atlanta populated by a majority of black professionals (doctors, lawyers, and the like). The local white minority were the proverbial "white trash" residents who couldn't afford to move out, or like my friend with enough land for his own air strip and living above the fray. I didn't experience overt discrimination because of my skin color, but there was a definite shift in how my requests for customer service were handled.

I appreciate the repeat of this story--I never could find the initial telling in the archives. Lithonia? Or maybe in south Fulton County? Both have pretty countryside and have for years been popular spots for Black professionals to live.


**Also, as a side note: am I the only one bothered by the implicit racism in the term "white trash?" Not because of what it says about the white people it speaks of directly, but because of the implied prejudice toward all Black people. But maybe that's just me.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I appreciate the repeat of this story--I never could find the initial telling in the archives. Lithonia? Or maybe in south Fulton County? Both have pretty countryside and have for years been popular spots for Black professionals to live.

Lithonia... Dekalb county.

**Also, as a side note: am I the only one bothered by the implicit racism in the term "white trash?"

implicit? looks overt. Its hard to be bothered by such old cliched stereotypes, while it seems popular these days to dig back through history to find offense.

Not because of what it says about the white people it speaks of directly, but because of the implied prejudice toward all Black people.

huh, more mind reading?

But maybe that's just me.

Perhaps just a little personal bias?

Racial divisiveness is a popular drum to beat during election time, so I expect to hear more of this over the next two months.

JR

 

[cyrano]

**Also, as a side note: am I the only one bothered by the implicit racism in the term "white trash?" Not because of what it says about the white people it speaks of directly, but because of the implied prejudice toward all Black people. But maybe that's just me.

I hear ya. You're not wrong. Bit is it really worth the effort?

Words should be used to carry a message. I don't mind a crude message, sometimes. We all inherently know what "White trash" means. Just like "Black trash". There. I've put it down for the record. Is the PC police coming for me now?

I don't think so. So let's move on.

I agree with you that BIG govt is as bad as BIG corporations. That doesn't mean anything they do is BAD.

The underlying problem is that things go haywire once they get too big. Corporate or govt or anything else.

 

[hodad]

huh, more mind reading?

Just like "Black trash".

No and no. Consider: there is no common term "Black trash" (though I'm sure someone has said it somewhere). Why is that? Why would the white people who use the term "white trash" not have an equivalent term for Blacks? I'd posit that for those people look down on Blacks in general, so why would they need to add the word "trash" when it's implied? I may or may not be the only person here who has heard a White person say of or to a Black person that they're "one of the good ones." It's a very ugly relative of the term "white trash," and it states quite clearly the viewpoint of the speaker: most Black people are "bad," in all the ways that our country's racist stereotypes might suggest.

So for white people, we have "white trash."
For black people, we have "one of the good ones."

Do you see the difference there? Is the implicit racism of "white trash" now perhaps a little more apparent?

 

[JohnRoberts]

No but I read that stretching is good for you...

JR

 

[hodad]

No but I read that stretching is good for you...

Yes, I hear it helps with mental atrophy. Perhaps you should try it sometime.

 

[skipwave]

This is verging on flame war, so cut the malarkey and snarky snark you so-called adults.

Back to the topic. The burning question of the day. Does forgiving student loan debt fix some structural flaw or serve the greater good in the construct of a capitalist society?

I don’t think it fixes any systemic flaw, but it breaks what needs breaking or more accurately reveals that the system is already broken. That the need for forgiveness exists at all is symptomatic, and thus our need now is for pathology. A few posters in this thread have attempted to offer that, and they have been ignored or ridiculed. That’s very sad to me.

Even in the polite cage the apes can’t keep from flinging poo. So I say good luck to you. And you. And you.

 

[living sounds]

Of course the term "white trash" is implicitly racist. It was coined during a time when a hierarchy of "races" and "breeds" was considered the natural order of the world, even by luminaries like the Founding Fathers.

I don't think anyone here has actually embraced the term, it needs to be used and understood within its historical context.

BTW, I am half way through the "white trash" book now and it is very interesting. Back then, as still often now, people made the fundamental attribution error of mistaking the effects of poverty and circumstance for an inherent inferiority. And a lot of history that is today primarily or even exclusively viewed through the lens of race can be much better understood within a class context. There's a long arc from the 1600's to today's resentment of "coastal elites" in "flyover country" (please notice the quotes). Highly recommended. It's not a political but a history book.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

This is verging on flame war, so cut the malarkey and snarky snark you so-called adults.

Back to the topic. The burning question of the day. Does forgiving student loan debt fix some structural flaw or serve the greater good in the construct of a capitalist society?

I find it ironic that it is the loans provided by the government which now must be forgiven. Were they predatory? Did they have unintended consequences? How can these problems best he addressed going forward given that the government continues to provide these loans?

I don’t think it fixes any systemic flaw, but it breaks what needs breaking or more accurately reveals that the system is already broken. That the need for forgiveness exists at all is symptomatic, and thus our need now is for pathology. A few posters in this thread have attempted to offer that, and they have been ignored or ridiculed. That’s very sad to me.

I agree. What happened in the 90s and beyond that caused the cost of a college degree to rapidly outpace other costs?

 

[JohnRoberts]

This is verging on flame war, so cut the malarkey and snarky snark you so-called adults.

perhaps I can blame this on mental atrophy?

Back to the topic. The burning question of the day. Does forgiving student loan debt fix some structural flaw or serve the greater good in the construct of a capitalist society?

clearly no

I don’t think it fixes any systemic flaw, but it breaks what needs breaking or more accurately reveals that the system is already broken.

I was critical of the Obama administration taking over the private economy student loan industry back in 2010. It wasn't broken at the time, not clear that it is broken now, or deserves blowing up, but the government has grossly mismanaged it with too easy lending. It seems to be bad business for all involved except for the colleges that have raised their prices to sop up the extra liquidity. At the time government claimed they would lower loan costs for students, and return revenue to the treasury, now they are proposing a hundred's of billion dollars gift paid for by tax payers.

That the need for forgiveness exists at all is symptomatic, and thus our need now is for pathology. A few posters in this thread have attempted to offer that, and they have been ignored or ridiculed. That’s very sad to me.

I titled this thread "Moral Hazard" and that pretty much describes the pathology of what appears to be going on.

Even in the polite cage the apes can’t keep from flinging poo. So I say good luck to you. And you. And you.

Actually I thought it was the monkeys that cast scatological sentiments around in the zoo.

JR

PS; An interesting angle on the student loan forgiveness, technically when a debt is forgiven it generates a taxable gain. Several states are talking about handling these gains differently for tax purposes.

 

[cyrano]

No and no. Consider: there is no common term "Black trash" (though I'm sure someone has said it somewhere). Why is that? Why would the white people who use the term "white trash" not have an equivalent term for Blacks? I'd posit that for those people look down on Blacks in general, so why would they need to add the word "trash" when it's implied? I may or may not be the only person here who has heard a White person say of or to a Black person that they're "one of the good ones." It's a very ugly relative of the term "white trash," and it states quite clearly the viewpoint of the speaker: most Black people are "bad," in all the ways that our country's racist stereotypes might suggest.

So for white people, we have "white trash."
For black people, we have "one of the good ones."

Do you see the difference there? Is the implicit racism of "white trash" now perhaps a little more apparent?

It's only happening in your mind, I'm afraid.

I've called one of my African neighbours "one of the good ones", without implying MOST are bad. They're not. He understood what I meant.

 

[hodad]

He understood what I meant.

Sorry to let you know this, but:

It's only happening in your mind, I'm afraid.