Musings: A DIY electronic drum set?

[Consul]

This isn't likely to happen soon, but I'd like to know if it could happen at all.

First, there are instructions on the web for making your own piezo trigger pads using Remo practice pads:

http://www.electronicdrums.com/pads/pads2.htm

Okay, so we have some CV triggers happening, now we need to convert that to MIDI.

Paia has a kit, called the MIDI Brain, that looks like it would fit the bill:

http://paia.com/midibrn.htm

It can convert 8 CV inputs into MIDI control change, pitch wheel, and channel pressure messages. Of course, I'd want two of them so I could have up to 16 triggers. The problem I have, is that I don't know if those MIDI messages are what I'd need to control a MIDIed drum plug-in like the FXDPansion BFD software. I would think that velocity would need to be on the list somewhere, right? So maybe the Paia isn't the right one for the job.

So, would this work, or would I want to go for another solution? Some folks have put together some pretty good-sounding drum parts using just a keyboard with BFD, so I imagine there's a solution for me somewhere.

Thanks all for the brainpower.

 

[daArry]

Hey,

I've got this on the list too

Take a look here:

http://www.midibox.org/edrum/

and

http://edrum.for.free.fr/

The main hurdles are the pads/proper hihat control and making a solid stand I reckon...

I also know some midibox heads are looking to code up a MIOS implementation of that 1st link so you'll be spoilt for options then and controlling BFD wouldnt be a prob...u can convert/map data easily enuff in the comp before bfd would see anyways too...

Cheers

 

[Consul]

Ooh, that looks exactly like what I was looking for! He even has a solution for the hi-hat pedal. Nice! I was afraid I might have to find my own. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I'm supposed to be an engineer type that can solve problems. Right? :green:

Thank you very much for the links.

Yeah, I predict there will be some fabrication involved in making a stand system for all of the different pieces. It's all part of the fun. Maybe by then I'll have my blacksmith's forge and can build a cool-looking wrought-iron contraption. :grin:

 

[dayvel]

I have a fair amount of experience with this (although, after all was said and done I found I preferred to play real drums, and program from a keyboard.)

Piezos wear out pretty quick unless you mount them on the backside of a hunk of steel or hefty acrylic, which greatly reduces their sensitivity once you get them inside the Remo pad.

What I ended up doing was using electret mic capsules with a pretty small coupling cap so you just catch the attack transients.

To translate to MIDI I used a midiKITI which you can get pretty cheap on eBay. It has 9 inputs and jack for a hihat switch. It is, howver, a total pain in the ass to set up, so make sure you get the manual with it.

I got this setup working pretty well. Then I found out that I really don't like electronic drums.

 

[Sleeper]

I would suggest an alesis dm4 or 5 as the trigger source.
super cheap on ebay.
I've got this and an old yamaha rack mixer, so I can mix in my diy synth drums (synchimes, syntoms and a midwestanalog bass kit) AND use the aux sends as trigger outs and the alesis has its own sounds to mix in with that again and so I do a little submix as I'm playing and as a general rule I can't find the groove unless I like what I'm hearing...
The submix is usually pretty much usable, but then the DM4 also sent a midi track to my DAW so If I have to fix something or add, so there it is.


Sleeper

 

[Kev]

I don't see the point of trying to make a brain as there are good second had sources out there.
D4 is just one.

Spend your time making the pads and triggers and foot pedals ... and seat shakers.

I think you probably have already guessed I've been doing that for a while.
We had some pages at the old place but through lack of interest it dropped off the Group DIY radar.

I'm a member of
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DIYedrums/
at yahoo has been going a while
some of the guys have good ideas.

 

[ToobieSnack]

Consul... get your self a roland octapad just for a controller
there is one version of octapad that has a sound module built in..
it has 1/4 jacks for additional input....!!like freakin 15!!
it also has a hi hat or "shift" pedal input for hi hat
then... for MIDI triggers.... you can use some little tweeters from radio shack.... i can't rmember the type ...they look like small coins.....as we know ... a speaker can be a mic
and a speaker can be a MIDI trigger too.
i have done this ....and i had a huge midi kit...
beleive it or not a peice of plywood with a mouse pad works good too. :wink:
also....colored plexiglass cymbals... ala "the Jetsons" :wink:
I also had a chrome ludwig set and sold all...:sad:

later
ts

[/list][/i]

 

[7string]

Alright! I finally get to help. Been lurking for a while, and you guys
have taught me a lot. Drum triggers are easy money. I just started
building my second e-kit out of old Tama shells. I?d be happy to
post pdf?s with pics and info. It will take me a bit to put together though.

I?ve done the Remo pads and they?re alright. They are a little loud.
The way to go is get some cheap drum shells and put an aluminum
crossbar across the lug bolts. Add a piezo riser of 4?-6? round plate.
Glue the piezo on and cover it with some high density foam (like
the beer coolers). Wire it to a jack and plug it in.

Cool cymbals like moving hihats and triple zone rides are doable too.
For those you need a module that supports variable hihats. The D4?s
and DM5?s do not. But, with one of those and a cheap Robrand module
like the TMC6 you?ll be set. Plug the modules into the MIDI interface
on your computer to use the sounds from a drum sampler. Again the
hats are glitchy with some programs. I do know that they work on
DFH Superior. It also has a bunch of sends so you guys can use all
those killer eq?s, pres, compressors, and summing boxes. :green: :sam:

PFozz?s site also linked above has the crossbar info (Beatnik?s pages)

http://edrum.for.free.fr

These guys are cool too:

http://www.edrumming.com

Oh, the common piezo transducers are the RS #273-073. Just cut em out
of their shell fist.

Pat

 

[adamasd]

Thomas Henry of Midwest Analog Products wrote an article about making drum pads many years ago for Polyphony. He used two pieces of copper clad board with a piece of the conductive foam used for static protection of ICs sandwhiched between them. It might be worth trying out. Midwest Analog Products is no more unfortunatly, so you can not get either of his books that had this info in it. But if you would like to see them send me a message and i can scan them and send them your way.

adam

 

[Consul]

Believe me, if ever I find a way to record real drums instead of going digital, I will.

The main reason is the hi-hat. I am a hi-hat fiend. I am always doing little things with the force of my blows, the pedal, hitting the bells, what have you, in order to get those hats to really sing. There's no way I could do that with an electronic kit ever.

The funny thing about it is, my favorite drum sounds on records are very dry and personal, where the fundamental tone of the toms really rings out, which means that I could probably get away with a small room that's really deadened. I don't really like the big John Bonham/Phil Collins room-mic'd sound.

But, if worse comes to worst, BFD programmed from a keyboard will probably work okay. A set of electronic pads to play on would be better. Like I said, I was just musing.

 

[Consul]

adamsd: Hey, thanks for the offer! I don't want you to go through so much trouble for something still a pipe dream, though. :wink: Unless you really want to.

You know, it did just occur to me, that even if I can have and record an acoustic kit, that having a few electronic pads around as part of it may not be a bad idea...

 

[mhelin]

Yes the hihat is a very demanding task for the edrum brains. I think Roland works quite well though. I use D4 as brains, but I think it does't work well enough. Once I recorded the trigger outputs to PC just to see what the signal looks like. It seems that it may take several ms until the brains can find the velocity, unless you use some kind of fuzzy logics algorithm (like sample two successive points and use the difference as a variable to calculate the velocity value). Also some pads can sense the hit point where the drum stick hits the snare by looking into the waveform. Processing that information takes the longes time but when implemented properly like in Roland drum pads the positional sensing can give very natural snare or tom sounds. I was to program the brains myself but quit the project after getting D4 (I'm looking for new Roland controllers now with the Roland hihat pedal). Unfortunately using edrums you don't learn how to play hihat properly.

 

[ToobieSnack]

Consul

just a reminder... the drum "brain/controllers will have a velocity setting to whereby....
you can set different sample to be played according to the velocity of the input...eg how hard you hit....
this way you can have ,,,for example,,, on a ride cymbal...
.... a bell strike for the soft velocities....
a ride soud woth medioum velocity ....
and a crash sound with high velocity strikes...

hope this helps
later
ts