My latest Ribbon Mic's
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Yes there is a fine stainless steel mesh over the ribbon. Its 200 x 200 40% open mesh. It’s pretty important in my opinion. Without it the proximity effect is even more pronounced. It will also aid in stopping a stiff plosive from tearing the ribbon. Sadly my corrugation rig is so simple it’s almost sad.
I literally used some m3 sized bolts to attach 2 gears to a piece of metal! It’s really not ideal by any means. In fact building a new one will be a project of mine soon enough. I attached a pic of what I would like to do but with wider gears.
I really only have the cnc drawing to generate the gcode it wouldnt be much good unless you have a cnc machine.
Yes there is a fine stainless steel mesh over the ribbon. Its 200 x 200 40% open mesh. It’s pretty important in my opinion. Without it the proximity effect is even more pronounced. It will also aid in stopping a stiff plosive from tearing the ribbon. Sadly my corrugation rig is so simple it’s almost sad.
I literally used some m3 sized bolts to attach 2 gears to a piece of metal! It’s really not ideal by any means. In fact building a new one will be a project of mine soon enough. I attached a pic of what I would like to do but with wider gears.
I really only have the cnc drawing to generate the gcode it wouldnt be much good unless you have a cnc machine.
Attachments
Marik
Well-known member
tskguy said:
Wide like that?
:
I have a few pairs of those of different pitch sizes and use them together with a couple of Starret micrometer heads for fine adjustments. The up-down movement of the top gear is achieved by using precision linear track.
Best, M
WOW!! Those are huge. Did you have those made or are they for something else?
I would love to see your rig.
I just noticed that you replied on the other thread I started on Klaus Heyne's forum.
Have you had a chance to listen to my test recording? Any opinions good or bad? I am a little paranoid about my tuning method.
It looks like Klaus doesn’t want me to post any samples. I had a feeling. Glad I asked first!!
EHeiserman
Marik
Well-known member
tskguy said:
WOW!! Those are huge. Did you have those made or are they for something else?
I would love to see your rig.
I just noticed that you replied on the other thread I started on Klaus Heyne's forum.
Have you had a chance to listen to my test recording? Any opinions good or bad? I am a little paranoid about my tuning method.
It looks like Klaus doesn’t want me to post any samples. I had a feeling. Glad I asked first!!
EHeiserman
Hello Eric,
Unfortunately, I cannot show my corrugation rig--at least at this point it is a secret
... All I can say, it is... EXPENSIVE!Yes, I listened to your recording. It is really very nice to hear classical piano (even if accidentaly it is an accompaniment for Cello Sonata no.3 op.69 by Beethoven
) on a DIY microphone--not very often you hear this combination! I have to be honest, personally, for me it is very hard to comment on this recording in terms of evaluating the sound of the microphone itself without knowing the instrument, how it sounds in your particular room, and how other microphones (esp. well known high end ribbons) would respond to those conditions.
It seems you recorded it with close miking, which generally does not respond well to classical music, and there is quite a bit of proximity effect, which rather stays in the way of music. Sorry, I don't mean to put a rain on the parade, but I think it is just not the right microphone for the recording of that type of music in those conditions and on that instrument, with that kind of miking. To really make it justice in those conditions you will need to through in some other well known ribbons to show what's the difference yours make.
I think if you could get some other samples of the instruments and types of music, which are much easier to record and much more forgiving to the miking techniques, (like some acoustic guitar samples, guitar cabs, or drum OH, for example) that would be much more telling, and much easier for the folks to relate, comment, and respond. Again, sorry for the rant, but it is just that classical piano is such a tricky thing to record well, that you don't want to go there unless you have a real nice Steinway D (or equivalent) in a beautiful concert hall--it is just completely different sound aesthetics.
Best, M
Marik,
Thanks for the comments!! I completely understand what you’re saying about the piano. Like I mentioned before it for sure isn’t the first mic I would reach for recording classical piano.
My wife is actually a Dr. in collaborative piano (that explains the music ;D) and has many concert sized Fazioli and Steinway pianos at her disposal in very nice concert venues. My test recording was done on a piano in my living room! As for the mic placement the room kind of forced me to side address the piano. I wasn’t exactly close micing but it wasn’t the typical way I record classical piano. My wife happened to be practicing and I just stuck a mic on it for a quick test. ..Anyway my next test recording will be a much more common source like you suggested. I’m really just glad you didn’t say Oh my god it sounds like crap!!! ;D ;D
As for the corrugation rig I am always surprised at the complexity of some these rigs. Does the job really call for such a complicated rig, maybe I’m missing something? I am a bit of a machinist so I completely understand how much money you can spend on good machining and measuring tools. The Rexroth linear rails on my cnc machine are crazy expensive!
I still want a picture of that rig!! Thanks again for your help, I truly appreciate it…
Eric
Thanks for the comments!! I completely understand what you’re saying about the piano. Like I mentioned before it for sure isn’t the first mic I would reach for recording classical piano.
My wife is actually a Dr. in collaborative piano (that explains the music ;D) and has many concert sized Fazioli and Steinway pianos at her disposal in very nice concert venues. My test recording was done on a piano in my living room
! As for the mic placement the room kind of forced me to side address the piano. I wasn’t exactly close micing but it wasn’t the typical way I record classical piano. My wife happened to be practicing and I just stuck a mic on it for a quick test. ..Anyway my next test recording will be a much more common source like you suggested. I’m really just glad you didn’t say Oh my god it sounds like crap!!! ;D ;D As for the corrugation rig I am always surprised at the complexity of some these rigs. Does the job really call for such a complicated rig, maybe I’m missing something? I am a bit of a machinist so I completely understand how much money you can spend on good machining and measuring tools. The Rexroth linear rails on my cnc machine are crazy expensive!
I still want a picture of that rig!!
Thanks again for your help, I truly appreciate it…Eric
Marik
Well-known member
Hello Eric,
I actually use ribbons quite a bit on a classical piano. Right now I am finishing up a commercial CD, which I recorded with the ribbons (MS). If you are interested I can post a clip.
The corrugator does not have to be that complicated--it really depends on what you expect it to do. Your rig should work just fine for single ribbons, however, if you are getting into production you want an absolute uniformity from piece to piece. You also do not want to deform the material (which will greatly affect its strength and DCR), but also not to get the corrugation too loose and decrease corrugation "memory". Another factor is ribbon skewing and this is probably the biggest problem. Only very fine adjustments can take care of it.
Best, M
I actually use ribbons quite a bit on a classical piano. Right now I am finishing up a commercial CD, which I recorded with the ribbons (MS). If you are interested I can post a clip.
The corrugator does not have to be that complicated--it really depends on what you expect it to do. Your rig should work just fine for single ribbons, however, if you are getting into production you want an absolute uniformity from piece to piece. You also do not want to deform the material (which will greatly affect its strength and DCR), but also not to get the corrugation too loose and decrease corrugation "memory". Another factor is ribbon skewing and this is probably the biggest problem. Only very fine adjustments can take care of it.
Best, M
I haven't made a jump to mic building yet, but in repairing and restoring old mics I have made maybe a couple of hundred ribbons over the past year, using different gear pitches and widths for different mics.
As Marik says, the real challenge is to get the corrugations even and perpendicular. The trick is to have a guide to feed in & keep the ribbon straight as you turn the gears.
For tuning, you can get most of the way there with trial and error. Because I'm mostly doing old mics, where every one is different, I normally expect to get it right on the second or third attempt, using the first attempt as a test.
For a production run a tensioning rig would be essential - you could imagine something based on a screw thread or micrometer to stretch out the ribbon.
As Marik says, the real challenge is to get the corrugations even and perpendicular. The trick is to have a guide to feed in & keep the ribbon straight as you turn the gears.
For tuning, you can get most of the way there with trial and error. Because I'm mostly doing old mics, where every one is different, I normally expect to get it right on the second or third attempt, using the first attempt as a test.
For a production run a tensioning rig would be essential - you could imagine something based on a screw thread or micrometer to stretch out the ribbon.
Thanks for the info guys!
Marik, I would love to hear a clip! What you’re saying about a production number of ribbons makes complete sense. I still will be making a better rig my current one is embarrassing The skewing issue is probably the most frustrating part for me. For now I just go slow and try to keep the pressure as even as possible so it stays straight. And what you say about tuning is exactly what I do. I basically do a recording with a new ribbon to make sure the response looks good. I think I have a pretty good feel for what a properly tuned ribbon looks like.
a tensioning rig would be a very cool thing to have for consistency.
I can’t thank you guys enough for the help.
Eric
Marik, I would love to hear a clip! What you’re saying about a production number of ribbons makes complete sense. I still will be making a better rig my current one is embarrassing The skewing issue is probably the most frustrating part for me. For now I just go slow and try to keep the pressure as even as possible so it stays straight. And what you say about tuning is exactly what I do. I basically do a recording with a new ribbon to make sure the response looks good. I think I have a pretty good feel for what a properly tuned ribbon looks like.
a tensioning rig would be a very cool thing to have for consistency.
I can’t thank you guys enough for the help.
Eric
Marik
Well-known member
zebra50 said:
Hey Stewart,
Haven't looked at the C&T patent application in awhile, but we might step on somebody's toes
.Generally, for tuning I much prefer movable/adjustable clamps. That's what I do in my microphones.
Eric,
Here is the recording with my ribbons. Recorded MS the M is cardioid and the S fig.8. I haven't done mastering, yet, so it is a straight matrix with minimum EQ (only a couple dB shelf down starting from 1.4KHz to tame some harshness, and a few dB down in 450Hz range to even out the natural voicing of that particular Steinway).
http://www.samaraudiodesign.com/ChopinWaltz2.WAV
Best, M
I'm sure we're fine. It's what the lawyers would call "obvious".For some reason those microphones were way cooler when they were still C&T with cool names and a funky logo. I don't really think Shure knows what to do with them.
Like this!
It's nice when you find this - makes repair so much easier.
This mic also has adjustable pole pieces so you can get them very close to the ribbon! Very cool, but not very efficient in terms of magnetic field.
Hi all,
Marik, that recording sounds great what a nice natural reverb in that room. The flu just kicked my ass for the last 3 days!! I actually designed my first pair of ribbons that adjusted the magnet gap but not the ribbon tensioning. My next pair will have that for sure. It would be much easier than what I’m doing now.
Eric
Marik, that recording sounds great what a nice natural reverb in that room. The flu just kicked my ass for the last 3 days!! I actually designed my first pair of ribbons that adjusted the magnet gap but not the ribbon tensioning. My next pair will have that for sure. It would be much easier than what I’m doing now.
Eric
