Nova/Groove Tubes/Sterling mod questions

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Amled87

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 20, 2022
Messages
132
Location
Tennessee
I've picked up a pair of Sterling Audio 151 microphones. They're an identical copy to the old M-Audio Nova down to the K67 style capsule and nasty HF. I was wondering about some ideas for mods. There is several posts about these microphones, but I'd like to maybe get some information here to clarify.

I want to tame the high end, and make them more usable for things like acoustic guitar, vocals and even possibly room mics and or guitar cabinet. I'm one for experimentation before asking for ideas, so that's exactly what I did.

The first things I did was replace C5 which was a 4.7uf 50v electrolytic with a quality Philips 1uF film cap. Next, I changed C1 which is the capacitor between the two 1G resistors by adding a 500pf silver mica in paralell. Next, I started looking for the output capacitor, which ended up being a 10uf electrolytic and I added a Wima 0.1uF in paralell to that as well. The microphones is now a "little" less bright and now seems to be too "boomy". Using coupling cap calculators and etc, that seems to be because the added 500pF to the input capacitor is letting more low-end through. I figured at that point, I could also replace the output 10uF with a quality Philips 1uF as well to help with the "boominess".

But, that got me to thinking about perhaps adding some HF attenuation (like in Neumann style circuits) or by possibly adding a LPF. What route would be better here? I've provided the schematic for the microphone foray help, please and thank you!

My idea for a LPF would be hanging a 0.1uF capacitor off the 200 Ohm resistor at the junction of the 10uF output capacitor and transformer leads. What issues would that cause? That would effectively put the 3dB cut-off at around 8kHz.

I've also seen where members line Ricardo, In67d and etc worked on implementing HF de-emphasis by adding a few components, removing the 1000pf input cap and etc and making the mic closer to the response of a u87 in cardiod only. That would require removing one 1G resistor, the 1nf input capacitor and adding two 1M resistors, a 330nf cap, a 220pf-470pf cap, 6k8 resistor and 12nf-22nf cap. Opinion on this?

The mic still is unpleasant in the high-end and is still boomy. What route would be best? Looking forward to any insight! As always, thank you so much for any help! Screenshot_20241102_213939_Files by Google.jpg
 
Here's what I was thinking for the modified microphone with added HF de-emphasis. These ideas were taken from a few members here and then also ran through LTspice Screenshot_20241101_214337_Chrome.jpg
 
For HF attenuation, you could just add a capacitor in parallel with R5; start at 1nF and work your way up from there.

Or just grab some ORS87-Plus boards (shameless plug 😁 ) - there are mounting holes that should fit the Nova (assuming the ST151 is also mechanically similar).
 
For HF attenuation, you could just add a capacitor in parallel with R5; start at 1nF and work your way up from there.

Or just grab some ORS87-Plus boards (shameless plug 😁 ) - there are mounting holes that should fit the Nova (assuming the ST151 is also mechanically similar).
I'd love some ORS87-Plus boards as I've also got some unused k67 style capsules from pulls that aren't used also! Please pm about them.

I don't know why adding a snubber to the drain resistor didn't come to mind as I commonly do this on plate resistors to attenuate highs in amp builds. I'll report back, thanks!
 
For HF attenuation, you could just add a capacitor in parallel with R5; start at 1nF and work your way up from there.

Or just grab some ORS87-Plus boards (shameless plug 😁 ) - there are mounting holes that should fit the Nova (assuming the ST151 is also mechanically similar).
I think I know why I didn't think to add a snubber to r5 now. R5 is a surface mounted resistor. Would tacking a cap to both ends of the resistor still be plausible and safe?
 
I'd love some ORS87-Plus boards as I've also got some unused k67 style capsules from pulls that aren't used also! Please pm about them.

https://www.pcbway.com/project/shareproject/ORS87_Plus_Open_source_U87_mic_project_2922baaf.html

I think I know why I didn't think to add a snubber to r5 now. R5 is a surface mounted resistor. Would tacking a cap to both ends of the resistor still be plausible and safe?

Sure, might just be wise to lay the new capacitor as flat on the board as you can, perhaps add some double-sided tape too.
 
https://www.pcbway.com/project/shareproject/ORS87_Plus_Open_source_U87_mic_project_2922baaf.html



Sure, might just be wise to lay the new capacitor as flat on the board as you can, perhaps add some double-sided tape too.
I replaced C4 with a 1uF tantalum cap and then tacked a 1000pF to r5 (the drain resistor) and what a change! To summarize, I changed c5 from a 4.7uF to a 1uF Philips polyester cap, changed c4 from a 10uF (with the added 0.1uF wima that I added) to a 1uF tantalum cap and then added a 500pF silver mica to the 1nF (for a total of 1500pF) capsule coupling capacitor. I love this thing now on acoustic guitar! I'm working on uploading a little snippet to YT if everyone would check. I didn't make critical micing choices, mic was around the sound hole for the rhythm and around the 12th fret for leads, it was also about 12" away through a 312 style preamp.



Opinions?
 
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In case anyone wants to compare the Nova circuit diagram to the actual ST151 (and earlier model ST51) PCB, here are some front and back pictures. In both, the ST51 is on the left and the ST151 is on the right. (The extra black wires on the 151 ground the headbasket and body shell.) Sorry about the framing losing the bottom edges of the back sides.SterlingST51andST151_Microphones_PCBsFront.jpg

SterlingST51andST151_Microphones_RearGuts.jpg
 
For HF attenuation, you could just add a capacitor in parallel with R5; start at 1nF and work your way up from there.
Is that the R5 on the Sterling PCBs or are they labeled differently? Could I just piggyback a NP0/C0G SMT capacitor on it?

Or just grab some ORS87-Plus boards (shameless plug 😁 ) - there are mounting holes that should fit the Nova (assuming the ST151 is also mechanically similar).

The screw centers are 25 mm apart side to side and 35 mm apart lengthwise. The upper screws centers are 15 mm below the plate under the headbasket. The lower screws' centers are 20 mm above the top of the transformer.
 
In case anyone wants to compare the Nova circuit diagram to the actual ST151 (and earlier model ST51) PCB, here are some front and back pictures. In both, the ST51 is on the left and the ST151 is on the right. (The extra black wires on the 151 ground the headbasket and body shell.) Sorry about the framing losing the bottom edges of the back sides.View attachment 139395

View attachment 139396
I figured the ST51 and ST151 were identical. I'm going to pick up a pair of the ST51's and attempt the HF de-emphasis that In67d, kingkorg and etc worked out on another page here awhile back. I've also put in a BoM order to build two ORS87's and two perfboard stripped down ORS87's (that have no pad or lpf, and a board layout was provided for). I'm looking at bodies on aliexpress right now for them, also picked up a pair of some weird looking TLM-103's with metal body and what looks like a k67 capsule (it's definitely a k67 capsule and not the weird k103 capsule).

So that'll be (2) ST151's modified with some HF roll-off, input cap changed to 1500pF, output cap changed to 1uF, plus (2) ORS87's pcb builds, (2) ORS 87 perfboard builds, the stripped down version with no pad or hpf) and then (2) ST51 that I'll be adding HF de-emphasis too and (2) weird TLM-103 with k67 capsules to work on and or mod in the next few weeks.

Next I'm gonna tackle a pair of U47's, a U47 FET and a pair of C12's.
 
Is that the R5 on the Sterling PCBs or are they labeled differently? Could I just piggyback a NP0/C0G SMT capacitor on it?



The screw centers are 25 mm apart side to side and 35 mm apart lengthwise. The upper screws centers are 15 mm below the plate under the headbasket. The lower screws' centers are 20 mm above the top of the transformer.
R5 is the same on the both and is the drain resistor. That's where you want to add your cap to cut highs. I found 1000pF worked great! I added a video of the "after".
 
Did you do any FR measurements, or just play it by ear?
I didn't do any measurements because what I was starting with wasn't a stock circuit. I had previously changed the electrolytic 4.7uf at C5 (which is the coupling cap between the fet and the emitter follower transistor that feeds the output transformer) to a 1uF Philips film cap, and then changed the 10uF electrolytic C4 (which is the output capacitor which connects the emitter follower transistor to the transformer) also to a 1uF Philips film cap. The electrolytics they used there didn't sound good (to me) and they're through hole and easy to change. Those changes got rid of the excessive low-end that the mic had but then the excessive high-end (that was already present) was more prominent. I added a 500pf silver mica cap to the 1000pF (C1 capsule coupling capacitor) to let a little more low-end though the mic from the beginning and mellow it out some. Adding the 1000pf capacitor to R5 (which is the drain resistor for the fet) mellowed it out some more, but I do believe I may end up going a little higher as it's still a little peaky. Did you listen to the video?

However, adding the capacitor is a very known trick and everyone uses it in even in guitar amps. Placing a cap over a plate resistor/drain resistor (called a snubber) basically send highs to ground.
 
Is that the R5 on the Sterling PCBs or are they labeled differently? Could I just piggyback a NP0/C0G SMT capacitor on it?

I went with the designation on the schematic posted in this thread, but it checks out - i can just about read "4702" on R5 ("470" and two zeroes, so "47000" ie. 47k), and it connects straight to the "D" pad of the JFET there.

And sure, NP0/C0G is perfectly fine, SMD would be really handy there. Plenty of room to even tack it on right next to R5, not necessarily on top of it.
 
Better picture, to show the SMT component values.

SterlingST151MicrophonePCBCloseup.jpg

More pictures from other angles attached, to try to make most through-hole component values visible.
 

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Frequency response plot for the ST151, compared to the Manley Reference Cardioid and Sony C800G. From AudioTestKitchen. (Their plots seem to be far less idealized than most manufacturer plots.) Like the Manley, it's got a big peak way up at about 13KHz, but it;'s got a rise by 4KHz and a sharp dip at 6KHz.

FrequencyResponse_SterlingST151vsManleyReferenceCardioidvsSonyC800G.png

Here's a link to that session over at AudioTestKitchen for anybody who wants to listen and compare:
https://app.audiotestkitchen.com/se...ca9f7e06e&instrument=5c4253d26b9a62afdcf7e06f
 
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Frequency response plot for the ST151, compared to the Manley Reference Cardioid and Sony C800G. From AudioTestKitchen. (Their plots seem to be far less idealized than most manufacturer plots.) Like the Manley, it's got a big peak way up at about 13KHz, but it;'s got a rise by 4KHz and a sharp dip at 6KHz.

View attachment 139405

Here's a link to that session over at AudioTestKitchen for anybody who wants to listen and compare:
https://app.audiotestkitchen.com/se...ca9f7e06e&instrument=5c4253d26b9a62afdcf7e06f

How would we go about seeing what placing a 1000pf, 1500pf and 2200pf capacitor across the R5 drain resistor would attenuate? The math isn't adding up to me currently and I'd love some help from someone more understanding!
 
How would we go about seeing what placing a 1000pf, 1500pf and 2200pf capacitor across the R5 drain resistor would attenuate? The math isn't adding up to me currently and I'd love some help from someone more understanding!

LTspice is your friend ;)
 
LTspice is your friend ;)
I'm attempting to use Ltspice, but I'm having issues. I'm not exactly familiar with transistor circuits so I'm not getting any information that to me is useful (as I'm sure the information I'm entering is wrong too). Again, possible to help with that? It's not simple like using calculators and etc to figure a plate bypass capacitor in a tube circuit. Any help with the plots for those capacitors would be great.
 
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