Number of the Beast

[micaddict]

Semantics aside, the thing is this is the future. And yes, it can be forced upon us. Relatively easy to do in a dictatorship (which some countries are already heading towards), but even in a a democracy you only need half the population's consent. OK oversimplified, but you get my drift. Remember, parents who don't vaccinate their children (or themselves) are more and more looked upon as being criminals, or in any case a danger to humanity.
Convenience is one argument. Hey, you can't lose your pass and it can't easily be stolen. How cool is that?
Fear can be another one. From climate change, migration, terrorism, war,  epidemics, theft etc. etc. Unrelated? I don't think so.
Long story short; the technology is here and it will be used.
Big scale.

 

[micaddict]

Why should they know or care about a collection of parables that has been edited numerous times over two millennia?

Not much editing at all. You'll find the same thing in the original, Greek text.

And ain't it funny that this was described two millennia ago, when no scientist could even remotely grasp this?

 

[DaveP]

Why should they know or care about a collection of parables that has been edited numerous times over two millennia?

My favorite passage from the New Testament is Matthew 6:5-7. Keyword: hypocrite.

Andy's post illustrates my point, it looks like in his mind apparently, Christianity now equals Hypocrisy.  150 years ago this would have been an outlandish viewpoint, now it's commonplace.

I am not a fan of conspiracy theories, but I can't make up my mind whether our trajectory is an intrinsic part of evolution  or there is someone or something pulling the strings,  but in the end, the destination is still the same whatever.

DaveP

 

[mattiasNYC]

Semantics aside, the thing is this is the future. And yes, it can be forced upon us.

It's not just "semantics", it's an important distinction... And I don't think anybody is arguing that it can't be forced upon us, I think we all know it can.

Convenience is one argument. Hey, you can't lose your pass and it can't easily be stolen. How cool is that? Fear can be another one. From climate change, migration, terrorism, war,  epidemics, theft etc. etc. Unrelated? I don't think so.
Long story short; the technology is here and it will be used.
Big scale.

Convenience can be an argument for encouraging it, but if it is voluntary it is voluntary. We can of course get into a discussion about what "voluntary" means in the presence of propaganda....

 

[mattiasNYC]

I am not a fan of conspiracy theories, but I can't make up my mind whether our trajectory is an intrinsic part of evolution  or there is someone or something pulling the strings,  but in the end, the destination is still the same whatever.

DaveP

Ok, but:

"So that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name."

- These people can still "buy or sell".

- The "mark" the way it's been interpreted is as far as I know visible.

- This hidden implant, does it have the name or number of the beast?



I guess people see what they want to believe, which is what makes belief so.... believable... for... believers...

 

[DaveP]

"So that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name."

- These people can still "buy or sell".

I think the point is that the others without the "mark" cannot.

- This hidden implant, does it have the name or number of the beast?

The way I understand it, the 6 stands for Mankind and his creation, as against 7 which is a perfect or prime number, which stands for God.  I won't argue that point though, because no-one really knows.  It has also been argued that the Beast is capitalism (right up your street!)  But the most likely explanation is the numerical addition of the letters in Greek.  Just for the record Trump is 920.

DaveP

 

[dmp]

I think the point is that the others without the "mark" cannot.
The way I understand it, the 6 stands for Mankind and his creation, as against 7 which is a perfect or prime number, which stands for God.  I won't argue that point though, because no-one really knows.  It has also been argued that the Beast is capitalism (right up your street!)  But the most likely explanation is the numerical addition of the letters in Greek.  Just for the record Trump is 920.

DaveP

Even for a non-believer like me, the bible is a pretty awesome text. Maybe 'the mark' is money?  Think about how strange it is that everyone accepts the value of money and through capitalism, that money has been consolidating more and more into the hands of a very few. The world's 8 richest people have more wealth than half the population of the world. The trajectory is steep towards the rich and powerful acquiring more and more.
Without the acceptance of money, the production of value by individuals would not be so easily acquired by the rich and powerful.

Andy's post illustrates my point, it looks like in his mind apparently, Christianity now equals Hypocrisy. 

I think the passage makes clear that the hypocrisy isn't personal religious belief, it is using devotion as a presentation to others for some purpose - some gain. I can't speak to what Andy meant but there is historical fact that religion has been used to control others and for personal gain to great extent.

"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words."

 

[micaddict]

The "mark" of the beast is 666. Where you might expect "stigma", the original Greek text says "charagma" which stems from charax.
Charax means palisade. And a palisade is a fence of (vertical) stakes.
Interestingly, the common barcode we use today (consisting of vertical lines) has three, longer guard bars; one at the left, one in the middle and one on the right. These look the same as the bar for the number 6. So that's a 6-6-6 framework. Visually, mind. I'm not talking about computer language here.

Another interesting point for those who are into this sort of thing is that the number 6 in Hebrew  equals the letter Vau or Waw (basically the western W).
So 666 = WWW. Another digital familiarity.

I'll stop here, because numerology is not my thing.
And it shouldn't keep us busy. (!)
Some things should, though.

 

[tands]

This conversation reminds me of this kid who worked at the gas station. Some customer got into a conversation with him, and wound up asking him if he'd ever licked out a girl's ***. When the kid says, "Lmao, no man." Guy goes,

"It's not that bad!"

  :-*

 

[Andy Peters]

Andy's post illustrates my point, it looks like in his mind apparently, Christianity now equals Hypocrisy.  150 years ago this would have been an outlandish viewpoint, now it's commonplace.

I (try to) look at things dispassionately. My observations tell me that too many Christians are hypocrites. I read what their book says, and I look at their actions, and I am amazed by the sort of theological pretzels they twist themselves into trying to reconcile their beliefs.

I think the passage makes clear that the hypocrisy isn't personal religious belief, it is using devotion as a presentation to others for some purpose - some gain. I can't speak to what Andy meant but there is historical fact that religion has been used to control others and for personal gain to great extent.

This is EXACTLY what I meant.

"5 And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. 6 But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words."

Seems to me that the height of hypocrisy is turning a basketball arena into a church.

 

[mattiasNYC]

I think the point is that the others without the "mark" cannot.

But they can though. If this is a voluntary opt-in, it by definition means that those who don't opt-in "can" 'whatever' it is you're thinking about, without the "mark".

The way I understand it, the 6 stands for Mankind and his creation, as against 7 which is a perfect or prime number, which stands for God.  I won't argue that point though, because no-one really knows.  It has also been argued that the Beast is capitalism (right up your street!)  But the most likely explanation is the numerical addition of the letters in Greek.  Just for the record Trump is 920.

DaveP

The Bible can be read and interpreted in a million ways, even when it's at it's most plainly spoken. So anyone who believes in this will find signs of whatever they want. Since I think it's all residual nonsensical superstition it's pretty much all... well.... nonsense... as far as prophesies go. I'm sure we can find a bunch of older texts that spell out this that or the other thing and apply a similarly loose interpretation and find that it indeed made predictions that came true.

This chip ain't the "mark". It also isn't the beginning of state-mandated implantation.

 

[mattiasNYC]

Even for a non-believer like me, the bible is a pretty awesome text. Maybe 'the mark' is money?  Think about how strange it is that everyone accepts the value of money and through capitalism, that money has been consolidating more and more into the hands of a very few. The world's 8 richest people have more wealth than half the population of the world. The trajectory is steep towards the rich and powerful acquiring more and more.
Without the acceptance of money, the production of value by individuals would not be so easily acquired by the rich and powerful.

If you're pondering why people accept money then I don't think it's that difficult. We're indoctrinated to accept the concept and the concept of capitalism from a very young age. So of course we accept it. Even people who question it are often confused about how things work because the thought process they employ is so deeply rooted from all this indoctrination.

So I don't think it's strange really. Just sad.

 

[gltech]

Reminds me of seeing "Logan's Run" when I was a kid.

 

[Andy Peters]

Reminds me of seeing "Logan's Run" when I was a kid.

We're all gonna end up in Carousel!