NYD eq (was: gain block for a passive EQ)

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At last... Here's my revised chart. As you can see, we arrived at similar results.

passive-eq2b.gif


What I'm planning to build will have three bands configured as follows:

Low: 40Hz shelf, 60Hz peaking, 100Hz shelf

Mid (all peaking): 250Hz, 400Hz, 1kHz, 3kHz

High: 5kHz peaking, 10kHz peaking boost/shelving cut, and 15khz peaking boost/shelving cut.
 
So should I parallel the 4 filters or make EQ+AMP+EQ+AMP+EQ.... ?
I recall a NYD schemo showing 2 or more filters togheter but can't find it...

I know you guys goal is to use inductors (mine too!) but how good or bad would it be with transistor gyrator instead of L?

:guinness:
Fabio
 
Fabio, my best friend :razz: , just have a look at Bluebirds version... The last of four links is the schem... This may clarify things for you. In fact all the filters share the same resistors and that´s why I think it´s the best passive EQ. As I understand, you end with less attenuation of the signal throught the filters.

http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=362&start=0
 
I have been simulating a four band version with wilco inductors sometime ago. I didn´t build the thing yet, but I will, soon...

EQ_wilco_2.GIF


EQ_wilco_2_test.GIF


I didn´t took note of the resulting frequencies, so I´ll have to look at the charts dave kindly posted again to know what was the resulting frequencies... Those charts are really nice to easily get inductors and cap values based on reactance.
 
Hey, I recognize that grounded-grid/cathode-follower combination! :green: I'd totally forgotten about that. Maybe I'll try it out in the EQ I'm going to build for myself. It so happens that I was given a sleeve of NOS 12AU7s for Christmas...
 
Hey... to compensate for DC winding resistance in the input stepdown transformer, you may find that you have a better boost/cut range by running the EQ circuit into a 500-ohm load instead of 600, unless your input transformer has very low DCR (or, if you're not using a stepdown transformer, your source impedance is less than 60 ohms).

I still recommend using a stepdown transformer unless your source impedance is very low--again, less than 60 ohms.

The reason this came to mind is because I was looking at some DCR measurements I made on some transformers in my collection, and it occurred to me that this appears in series with the impedances reflected by the "ideal" transformer. So, the impedance reflected to the secondary would be the source impedance PLUS the primary DCR, divided by the square of the turns ratio, and then in series with the secondary DCR.

So, say your source impedance is 1K (pretty common for "semi-pro" equipment). Suppose the DCR of your windings is 200 ohms for your primary and 40 ohms for the secondary. The 1K source impedance plus the primary DCR would be reflected to the secondary as 1200/16 = 75, in series with the DCR of the secondary = 75 + 40, or 115 ohms. That's quite a bit higher than the 60 ohm figure that you'd expect from an ideal transformer with no copper loss. And then when you add in the real-world DC resistance of the inductors in the filter circuits, your maximum boost is only about 8dB instead of 10. Changing the output load from 600 to 500 brings the differential between flat and boost to 9.5dB, which is much closer to where it should be.

The resistor values in the attenuator network could be adjusted to compensate for this. But calculating them in the first place was a very tedious exercise that I don't intend to repeat anytime soon, so changing the output load to 500 ohms is the solution I intend to use. It only increases the insertion loss by about 1.5dB.
 
If not using an input transformer, I might test driving the EQ with another pair of Q8 AM-10's. That might just work, though I'm not sure of their output impedance. I figure it could be around/below 60 ohms or so.

Did not check schemo, but should be well below 60 ohms, probably below 1 ohm. Feedback does dramatically reduce output impedance (OK, a bit simplified).

Samuel
 
Hey Rafa,
will that gain make up give more gain that Jakobs SRPP stage?

It might be time to rework mine a little. I think having a step down transformer might be key.
 
Here's an idea I like... As a matter of fact, this is how I'm planning to build mine, as a stand-alone passive box that can be used with any line amp or preamp of adequate gain. I like the idea of not being married to a specific gain makeup amp. See below:

11kB GIF

By the way, some folks might be wondering about the differences in resistor values between my schematic (posted earlier in the thread) and Raf's and Bluebird's schematics. That's because when I originally posted the idea, the values were "normalized" to 1K to make it easier for me to calculate. My intention all along was to scale the resistor values for a 600-ohm nominal impedance, but in my eagerness to share the idea, I posted the "normalized" values and then tried to update with the "scaled" values after the fact, thus spawning confusion that persists to this day. :green:

For anyone who's considering building this, I recommend using the values in the schematics I've posted in this thread.
 
Nice one Dave!!

I like the idea of using preamps as make-up gain - reduces the amount of gain blocks I have to buy.....ohh think of all the flavours.....

Cheers Tom
 
y0...

Ye, keeping it psv and being able to use whatever makeup stage sounds tasty indeed. I remember a while back when looking for the inductors I stumbled across these guys: http://www.mcemagnetics.com/

This from an email sesh:

We have sold our audio chokes our drawing# OC18CL to others for use in equalizers. If you can obtain Recording Magazine of December 2003, see the article by Scott Dorsey. We also have a standard line of toroidal inductors (EC30RL) that are reasonable in cost. These two are not on our website so I have attached them to this email. There are other inductors (chokes) that were designed for DC smoothing power supply chokes that would also work for you. See our website www.MCEmagnetics.com and look at drawing OC(12-25)BL. You would "luck out" to find the nominal values you want except for the two highest.

If you need those exact inductance values say ±5%, we would make a family of parts on a pot core size 1811 (.74 inches dia, .42 inches high) with a PC bobbin.

For cost comparisons, any standard parts would probably average about $5.00 each (USD). The custom pot core versions would be about $7.00 each with a one time non-recurring engineering charge of $180.00 for all 8 parts. We have all the materials in stock so lead times could be short.

Prices seem pretty good no? Perhaps a group order of the needed values would be an idea?

Peesh!
 
Hi,

is it really hard to get inductors from Wilco? I understand they send samples but if you want to buy are they easy to deal with?

I'd be up for a group buy but I guess everyone needs different values...

Cheers Tom
 
The Toko or Fastron "pluggable chokes" will work fine for the smaller values. For the larger values (100mH, 270mH and 820mH, in the case of my EQ) only the Wilcos or similar inductors with low DCR are suitable. It's kind of hit or miss, but sometimes small audio transformers can be successfully applied as inductors in filter circuits. For instance, here are measurements I made on a few small xfmrs from Mouser:

http://electronicdave.myhosting.net/miscimages/mouserxfmrs.gif

The second one from the top looks like a good candidate for the low band in my EQ. I haven't tried it yet, though. Besides inductance and DCR, the other figure of merit is distributed capacitance--the lower, the better. I didn't take a measurement of that on those transformers.
 
By the way, once you factor in the parasitics (e.g., the series resistances of the inductors and so on), the depth of cut becomes limited. You can correct this by reducing the value of the 137 ohm resistor in the attenuator to 100 ohms. The rest of the steps seem to fall in line pretty well.
 
94 ohms DCR is too high. And that's an awful lot of turns!

If Wilco are being dicks about sending samples to you, consider using small audio transformers for the larger values. Earlier in this thread, I posted a link to measurements I made on some small transformers from Mouser. There is one model that should work very well for the low band (820mH and 270mH, at about 50 and 25 ohms, respectively).

For the lower values in the high-frequency band, Toko or Fastron shielded "pluggable chokes" (the same series Jakob recommends for the Pultec) would work fine.
 
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