Paypal and transaction costs

[G-Sun]

When buying a couple of thimes now, private here, or ebay, cross border/currency,
I've really been stumbled by the total of fees and transaction costs.
It's typical like 4,5% of total sum.

Are we being screwed by the money-handlers in the world,
or does these costs reflect real work and costs on their part?

 

[ruffrecords]

The fees for a seller in the UK are 3.4% + 20 pence per transaction. So it you sell something for £10 you can expect to pay 54 pence to Paypal which is 5.4%. If you go to the Paypal help and type in 'fees' it will tell what the fees are for your country.

Cheers

Ian

 

[Winetree]

Yes, Not only Paypal fees but you get nicked on money exchanged rates also.

 

[emrr]

The insertion of middle men into transaction processes who produce nothing of value for the world, simply skimming off others productivity. 

 

[ruairioflaherty]

They charge exactly what the market will bear and not a penny more. 

I'm not sure that I agree with Doug in this specific case (although I most certainly do in many cases).  Paypal sucks in so many ways but it has been fantastic for small person to person business - selling a single transformer to someone in Germany for example. 

The old way was wire transfers, large fees and delays that undermined the viability of small transactions.

 

[thermionic]

They charge exactly what the market will bear and not a penny more. 

I'm not sure that I agree with Doug in this specific case (although I most certainly do in many cases).  Paypal sucks in so many ways but it has been fantastic for small person to person business - selling a single transformer to someone in Germany for example. 

The old way was wire transfers, large fees and delays that undermined the viability of small transactions.
[/quote

Unless you're in the Eurozone, in which case wire transfers are invariably far better value for both parties. There are competing banks and transfer firms, often offering transfers that are free for the receiver. (I recently used Transferwise for a Japan payment. Note that your bank may try to prevent you using such services on the grounds of 'security' - this is a scandal brewing, as they're trying to make it hard for people to use such services).

I get paid via wire from the USA and I'm told there are quite a few firms offering competitive schemes now. This is in marked contrast to a few years ago, when US clients would insist I took PP.

Paypal is just nasty. Everyone I know has been subject to some kind of charge-back or ripoff scheme by it. They automatically side with the buyer and totally disregard the seller's track record.

Bitcoin has shown what the future holds. Whether it's Bitcoin itself, or a similar P-P scheme, it's only a matter of time before something user-friendly and secure enough emerges. Keep the faith 

 

[Pip]

Then don't use it or include the loss to you the seller in the overall price.  That's what most people do. Yes it costs money to transfer money especially when it comes to international currency exchange it always has and it always will.  A guy by the name of Soros made a killing on the British Pound taking a plunge. Look to the UK where the new party in town is talking no EU alignment. 

I as a buyer am willing to defray you the sellers losses during the transaction for no other than the convenience of the PayPal protections and their credit offerings. Got a problem with this take my personal cheque its good I swear.  Actually mine is but are you willing to take that chance?!

Sorry BitCoin is a total pipe dream fiasco if you ask me. Its up there with Siberian Salt Mine shares. When my country takes BitCoin for my end of year tax bill I'll take it seriously.

 

[emrr]

I do a significant # of transactions here with personal checks, both buying and selling.  No problems.  Asian buyers payment of choice used to be cash via registered mail.  I'd get $1k-2K in $20's stapled to a piece of paper. 

Anyway, now that PayPal has extended buyer protection to 180 days, there's no end in sight to post-sale jitters. 

 

[okgb]

Before paypal was bought by ebay , the exchange rates were competitive
Although they promote selling in U.S. currency , they won't let me withdraw in U.S.  currency
the LAST time I sold something on ebay , the buyer  " claimed " it was defective [ a fuzz pedal , for a friend ! ]
paypal gave him his money back from my account [ linked to a C.C. card ] without him proving anything , like
sending the pedal back!
Paypal buy/ sell currency rates . now always  seem to add a little [ percent or two ? ]
sell a hundred two buck items or 2 100 buck items, my answer is , thanks I'll buy less stuff!

 

[Andy Peters]

Before paypal was bought by ebay , the exchange rates were competitive

eBay is spinning off/selling PayPal. What does the future hold?
I don't care because I shitcanned my PayPal account a few years ago.

 

[iomegaman]

Paypal will claim that the currency conversion rate is the market rate, but it is always a bit higher than when I check it...I am not sure if they are allowed to charge a higher currency conversion AND transaction fee's...

I recently bought an item in the USA where the seeler claimed to have accidently destroyed it on the way to the post office the day after my transaction cleared, it took 3 weeks to see it back in my account, and I am sure he credited it right away per ebays own policy (item showed "refunded" for the entire 3 weeks)...

So here's the deal Paypal takes my money, transaction gets refunded they then take the money away from the seller, now neither the buyer or the seller has the funds for 21 days...Paypal/eBay does....multiply that scenario by thousands and you can make a decent coin on interest rates etc...in that window with cumulative cash sums...

All done with 1's and 0's...no real goods changed hands...ever...

 

[emrr]

And they still aren't regulated as a bank, though they offer a CC and deposit accounts. 

What will ebay transaction rules dictate as separate companies, that's the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ question.  I was surprised that every service offering money orders or transfers did nothing in response to ebay making PayPal the only legitimate transaction method for the majority of transactions back in 2008ish.  You know the USPS lost significant  income because of this, along with Western Union, etc. 

 

[Pip]

Have you sent any money Western Union lately? Sheesh talk about gouging! Banks huh. They are about as thrifty as a bucket with a hole in it.

 

[G-Sun]

The fees for a seller in the UK are 3.4% + 20 pence per transaction. So it you sell something for £10 you can expect to pay 54 pence to Paypal which is 5.4%. If you go to the Paypal help and type in 'fees' it will tell what the fees are for your country.

Yes, the fees are in that way transparent.
It's more the added currency rate cost that feels a little rip-off.

I do understand they are offering a service,
and it's reasonable to be paid for that service.

But, 2015.. I hope we can do things better/easier than this.

 

[G-Sun]

I see KMR Audio is offering the use of a SagePay-option
http://www.sagepay.co.uk/

Is that better?
Nah, just local, is it?

 

[[silent:arts]]

Yes, the fees are in that way transparent.

Mhm. Not to me 
I know those calculators etc, but I pay none to huge fees.
Sometimes I get payments without any fee reduction. Well - while I don't know why I'm cool with this.
I do get a lot of payments with the same amount, like a D-LA2A PCB with transformer.
Or one GDIY511 Rack with PSU.
Fees are often different - depending on buyers country?
I do not know, but - for example - some payments I got from Switzerland have been near to 10%.
Another from Russia was 0%. And so on.

I don't charge PayPal fees extra, they are included in my sales price.
For payments by bank transfer I give a discount of 2%.

All together I think this equals out over the year.

 

[keefaz]

[quote author=[silent:arts]
Fees are often different - depending on buyers country?
I do not know, but - for example - some payments I got from Switzerland have been near to 10%.
Another from Russia was 0%. And so on.
[/quote]
I noticed that too, I think it depends on the way the payment was made, if buyer transfered money directly from his personal paypal account to yours or if he paid with a credit card via paypal (I believe in this case you pay paypal profits on currency change twice)

Edit: yes it depends on payment method (more expensive with credit card)
https://www.paypal.com/de/webapps/mpp/ua/useragreement-full#16

 

[Spiritworks]

I think Paypal fees are in line with fees from Credit Card Companies. It seems a lot of smaller businesses that accept credit card payments have minimum purchase amounts in order to help offset those fees. The thing that is unacceptable about Paypal  is, as stated above, the everything-in-favor-of-the-buyer mentality which simply leads to way too much abuse.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Then don't use it or include the loss to you the seller in the overall price.  That's what most people do. Yes it costs money to transfer money especially when it comes to international currency exchange it always has and it always will. 

Pretty much..

A guy by the name of Soros made a killing on the British Pound taking a plunge.

George Soros isn't the only one arbitraging shifting currency values and large companies can hedge against currency shifts by buying futures contracts to lock in a future exchange rate, but that cost a few points so if the value of the other currency increases the futures expire worthless. Less painful if the currency drops. George Soros is famous for betting against the British currency and arguably making a large enough bet that he probably influenced the short term exchange rate. A more recent anecdote about betting wrong was when the Swiss Franc dropped it's peg to the Euro, and instantly rose 20% in value. Some people lost a pile of money on that one.   

Look to the UK where the new party in town is talking no EU alignment. 

It seems the current story is about Greece staying in or leaving the EC.

I as a buyer am willing to defray you the sellers losses during the transaction for no other than the convenience of the PayPal protections and their credit offerings. Got a problem with this take my personal cheque its good I swear.  Actually mine is but are you willing to take that chance?!

This is evolving and mobile payments are the most recent change agent. Apple gets a slice of apple-pay but the new google android version does not get revenue from transactions. Of course the CC companies always make money. The politicians continue to pressure the CC companies to reduce fees, but that often leads to unintended consequences like reduced credit availability to low value customers. 

Sorry BitCoin is a total pipe dream fiasco if you ask me. Its up there with Siberian Salt Mine shares. When my country takes BitCoin for my end of year tax bill I'll take it seriously.

Bitcoin is slowly getting integrated into the real monetary system. I'm not sure if it will end up with any advantage over simple electronic funds transfers or not. I would not be surprised to see the IRS accept it someday.  I doubt it will ever deliver on it's promise of blunting inflation. Governments all around the world depend on inflation to support their deficit spending. That said current targets for inflation are running around 2% and central banks are having trouble hitting that. 

JR

 

[CJ]

bad customer service,