Power up old LYREC tape machine

[tinn]

Recapping:
almost all caps can be checked inside the circuit.
Recapping is stress for the boards and in most cases unnecessary.
My LYREC TR 532 /ATC is still working fine with the original caps.

 

[Nelson Paschoal]

Recapping:
almost all caps can be checked inside the circuit.
Recapping is stress for the boards and in most cases unnecessary.
My LYREC TR 532 /ATC is still working fine with the original caps.

Yes, it´s stressful for the board, but less stress than blow up the whole thing. At very least all the eletrolitics in the power rail I change with no check.

 

[joakimkarlthomas]

Hi again! Have started cleaning the machine and will soon start to check the the caps. I have a capacitance function in my DMM, would that be enough to use? About swapping them out, Im not sure yet but of course I will if they doesn't measure the marked value.

Im also thinking about buying the variable transformer and found this one for a good price:
MCP 500 DIGITAL - Regulating transformer with toroidal core, 0 - 250 V, 2 A, 500 W

Is 2A - 500W not enough? They also have a 4A - 1000W for €15 more. The power requirements rated in the manual says 220V / 600 VA max.

 

[abbey road d enfer]

Hi again! Have started cleaning the machine and will soon start to check the the caps. I have a capacitance function in my DMM, would that be enough to use? About swapping them out, Im not sure yet but of course I will if they doesn't measure the marked value.

DMM's are not suitable for measuring in-circuit.
What works in-circuit is an ESR-tester. It gives an ESR value and/or a good/faulty indication. The latter is based on current production lytics. The lytics in your machine are about 30+yo, so they may not pass the test (technology has improved significantly over the years).
I suggest you disconnect one of each type of capacitors, run it through the capacitance test and the ESR test. If it's good, now you can check the others in-circuit for ESR. If they are close enough they are either all good or all bad.

Im also thinking about buying the variable transformer and found this one for a good price:
MCP 500 DIGITAL - Regulating transformer with toroidal core, 0 - 250 V, 2 A, 500 W

Is 2A - 500W not enough? They also have a 4A - 1000W for €15 more. The power requirements rated in the manual says 220V / 600 VA max.

The 500VA is probably able to withstand temporary overload, but in view of the small price difference, I would go for the bigger one.

 

[joakimkarlthomas]

Anyone know how to remove the side chassis on this Lyrec machine? One side contains a pcb board and the other a few fans. I removed all visable screws on the outside but there’s something more holding it..

 

[joakimkarlthomas]

Recapping:
almost all caps can be checked inside the circuit.
Recapping is stress for the boards and in most cases unnecessary.
My LYREC TR 532 /ATC is still working fine with the original caps.

Do you know how to access the board in on the right side chassis? (and fans on the left)

Anyone know how to remove the side chassis on this Lyrec machine? One side contains a pcb board and the other a few fans. I removed all visable screws on the outside but there’s something more holding it..

 

[Boomerang]

I fully refurbished one of these in 2010. I have scans of the manual and quite a few notes and photos, including a list of parts I needed to get. Pretty well every electrolytic needed replacing. There were at least two versions of the Rec/Rep Amp, using different chips. I compared the scanned manuals that I found online with the real manual I had and scanned all the pages that were extra or different. I also have some corrections to errors in the manual. My scans were submitted to the chap who had put the scans online and he added mine to his collection. So you may have them already. I did this refurb with a former Lyrec UK service engineer. He has retired now but I am still in contact with him if you get really stuck.

 

[Boomerang]

The one I did was full of yellow Frako electrolytics. Huge numbers of them were spilling brown gunge onto the board or had popped their end caps. We sample tested a large number of one that "looked" OK, and there were so many with incorrect values that we took the decision to change the lot. The boards are pretty decent quality so I wouldn't worry about that. It is just a long time-consuming job, but good to know that the electronics will last for many years to come. Zoom in on these pics and you can see the brown gunge on some.

 

[joakimkarlthomas]

I fully refurbished one of these in 2010. I have scans of the manual and quite a few notes and photos, including a list of parts I needed to get. Pretty well every electrolytic needed replacing. There were at least two versions of the Rec/Rep Amp, using different chips. I compared the scanned manuals that I found online with the real manual I had and scanned all the pages that were extra or different. I also have some corrections to errors in the manual. My scans were submitted to the chap who had put the scans online and he added mine to his collection. So you may have them already. I did this refurb with a former Lyrec UK service engineer. He has retired now but I am still in contact with him if you get really stuck.

Fantastic! Appreciate all help I can get. Haven’t had a look at the channel boards but after your great contribution to the thread I wanted to have a look at these Frako caps. Did a visual check on all the board. Couldnt find any leaking or in any other way (visually) faulty cap. But I discovered that on about 8 of the 24 board the Frako caps have already been replaced. I think I’ll have a look at all caps with the esr-meter I recently bought and pay extra attention to the Frakos. Probably swap them all.

this machine was serviced once a year until the late 90’s. When the service guy passed away the previous owner of the machine decided to make the transision to computers and DAW. So probably pretty good taken care of until then, but been standing untouched in the studio since. My plan was to first clean it from dust (which was a lot of) and then check all the electrolytic caps with esr meter before power it on slowly with a Variac. Im still in the cleaning stage and the next step there was to access the board on the right side chassi. But cant figure out how to get in there. Need to both to clean and check the components..

 

[joakimkarlthomas]

The one I did was full of yellow Frako electrolytics. Huge numbers of them were spilling brown gunge onto the board or had popped their end caps. We sample tested a large number of one that "looked" OK, and there were so many with incorrect values that we took the decision to change the lot. The boards are pretty decent quality so I wouldn't worry about that. It is just a long time-consuming job, but good to know that the electronics will last for many years to come. Zoom in on these pics and you can see the brown gunge on some.

Documentation: Original frako caps on one board, and showing replacements on the other. Havent checked any of them yet. The replacements might be very old aswell.



I've checked all the caps under the tape desk. Like all these ones. All of the was under 0.5 Ohms on the ESR meter. So probably ok.



Two motor caps sitting under the tape reel motors. The ESR meter just say they are resistors about 45 ohm and no reading of either capacistance or ESR. Guess they need replacement? Or are motor caps different in any way. They are marked 9uF



This thing looks like a multi cap. But not sure if it is.


There are a few boards under the tape deck with smaller caps. They seem to be in good conditon.


Still havent figured out how to acess the board on the side of the machine. I took away all screws I can see (marked with yellow) but cant get it loose.

 

[Bo Deadly]

What are the heads like? The condition of the heads really dictate how much time or work you should invest in a tape machine. If there is a replacement head assembly available, buy it even if you don't need it. That will significantly increase the value of the machine when restored.

I wouldn't trust those caps. Frako or motor run caps. The relays could also be bad. If the relays are bad, you will need to create an adapter PCB so that you can swap in replacements.

But you could turn it on just to see it work. If it does and you really want to invest more time into it, create a spreadsheet of all the caps and parts that you'll need. When you have all parts in-hand, break out the hot air station and get to work. Be vary careful not to damage the traces on those old boards. Do one whole board at a time and then test so that you're not trying to debug the whole thing at once.

 

[tinn]

I recommend making a test jig to test the boards on your lab bench.
some switches for contol signals (syc, play...rec...)best with simulation of the heads.
Then you can sweep a tone generator and the output should be fairly flat.
As I said earlier, almost all if not all caps can be checked inside the circuit.
behind the side cover is the ATC locator main board.
It is all written in the manual. link was mentioned earlier.
You have to read the manual and you have to understand it.
Otherwise your "work" will make things worse than better.
From your questions I see that you have not the ability to deal with a thing like
that in a succesful way yet.
And as Bo Deadly mentioned: check the heads first .If you get any
good response from ch1 and ch24 it is a good sign. Or measure the
inductance of the head coils, if they are more or less in the same range,
that is promising.
You will see that the head relay will be a problem, not any cap.

 

[tinn]

Do you know how to access the board in on the right side chassis? (and fans on the left)

Documentation: Original frako caps on one board, and showing replacements on the other. Havent checked any of them yet. The replacements might be very old aswell.
View attachment 88613View attachment 88612


I've checked all the caps under the tape desk. Like all these ones. All of the was under 0.5 Ohms on the ESR meter. So probably ok.

View attachment 88614

Two motor caps sitting under the tape reel motors. The ESR meter just say they are resistors about 45 ohm and no reading of either capacistance or ESR. Guess they need replacement? Or are motor caps different in any way. They are marked 9uF
View attachment 88615


This thing looks like a multi cap. But not sure if it is.
View attachment 88616

There are a few boards under the tape deck with smaller caps. They seem to be in good conditon.


Still havent figured out how to acess the board on the side of the machine. I took away all screws I can see (marked with yellow) but cant get it loose.
View attachment 88617

 

[tinn]

Dear Joakim,

again, please read the manual, it is all written there. 3mm allen key

the "outside screws" should not be touched, they keep the inner board in place.
I have serviced these machines for decades and your clueless tinkering is
a bit painful for me to watch.

Get a friend at your place who has experience in electronics to join you.
powering up: there are fuses, so there should not be too much smoke.
Bad capacitors are not very likely.

You can disconnect all connectors to the amps (power and control connectors) on the rear
and remove all cards in the upper compartment but not card 4 (power regulator).
Power the machine up and check the supply voltages.

You can't measure the caps always in the above manner.
It depends on the circuit around.
The "motor cap" 9uF is ok for shure.
The winding of the motor is parallel, that has to be taken in account

Best Tinn

 

[joakimkarlthomas]

Dear Joakim,

again, please read the manual, it is all written there. 3mm allen key

the "outside screws" should not be touched, they keep the inner board in place.
I have serviced these machines for decades and your clueless tinkering is
a bit painful for me to watch.

Get a friend at your place who has experience in electronics to join you.
powering up: there are fuses, so there should not be too much smoke.
Bad capacitors are not very likely.

You can disconnect all connectors to the amps (power and control connectors) on the rear
and remove all cards in the upper compartment but not card 4 (power regulator).
Power the machine up and check the supply voltages.

You can't measure the caps always in the above manner.
It depends on the circuit around.
The "motor cap" 9uF is ok for shure.
The winding of the motor is parallel, that has to be taken in account

Best Tinn

Thanks! No need to worry, I won't make any drastic things here. I've had the machine for almost half a year but haven't powered it up at all yet. Started this thread to be sure about giving it power to test it for the first time in many years. The suggestions I've had is 1. Clean it from dust (and it was a lot of it in the left side chassis by the fans. Also around the fans under the tape deck). 2. Check electrolytic capacitors (some suggest replacing without testing). 3. Start up slow using a Variac.

I'm at number 2 right now and haven't found any faulty capacitors yet (but havn't tested all channel boards, only a few with both the old Frakos and the ones with replace caps). And next step was the check the ones in the area I couldn't find out how to reach. I have checked the manual but couldn't find it. I will look again of course!

Again, no worries, I'm very careful with the machine. Will also look around for someone to help me with service. Considering to do so before testing, aware that it might be more expensive in the end not to. But the budget is small atm so not sure yet. I won't service it myself but have a lot of soldering experience and used to replace components and building diy projects. So not afraid for some simple service work, but I'm know I'm not an electronic engineer! Thanks Tinn for your support!

 

[joakimkarlthomas]

If you have powered up the machine and it is running, don't forget to lubricate the bearing at the very top of the capstan.

I found this part in the manual. 8.12 Lubrication. "Two drops of oil every month (........) drawing 8.0.1, points 7 and 8". Just to make sure! See my photo, is this where I put the oil? Not the hole on top of the capstan, right? (i've seen that method on som other tape machines).

I've now had the machine powered on for a few times, have had the voltage rails measured and everything looks good this far. Thanks for all the help!

edit: sorry, forgot to attach the photo. Now done that!