Problem of long-term meds

[DaveP]

My wife was prescribed anti depressants for chronic migraine about 15 years ago.  What no-one realised or chose to tell her was that the body eventually finds a way to overcome the effect of drugs over time.  She went through a nightmare cold turkey getting them out of her system to finally get a reset.

I knew that if you took sleeping pills for long enough they would eventually stop working and then you would be in a far worse place, but I did not think that it was a universal principle, now I know different.

I think that this effect is not talked about much because it's in the drug companies interest to keep us on meds for as long as possible. 

DaveP

 

[Matador]

Like everything else in life, it is a risk-benefits analysis.  If one chooses not to take their blood pressure medication, they risk heart problems down the road, however on the upside they don't have any medication-induced side-effects.  Were your wife's migraines lessened over those 15 years?  If she had to go back, would she decide to live with migraines in exchange for not having to stop meds cold turkey?  There is no right answer.

If you get no benefit, there is no point in taking any given medication.  If it works perfectly with no side effects, then there isn't any reason *not* to take them.  Most real medications lie between these two extremes.

 

[JohnRoberts]

My wife was prescribed anti depressants for chronic migraine about 15 years ago.  What no-one realised or chose to tell her was that the body eventually finds a way to overcome the effect of drugs over time.  She went through a nightmare cold turkey getting them out of her system to finally get a reset.

I knew that if you took sleeping pills for long enough they would eventually stop working and then you would be in a far worse place, but I did not think that it was a universal principle, now I know different.

I think that this effect is not talked about much because it's in the drug companies interest to keep us on meds for as long as possible. 

DaveP

Yup... there has been a lot of progress in migraine medicines but the new stuff is probably expensive.

A reported side effect of antidepressants is headaches.  Working on some of the same neural pathways. Indeed lots of medicines block natural clearance mechanisms, but over time the body can adapt, or not. I doubt there is a universal tolerance mechanism for all medicines.

If you read the list of warnings for most drugs you would never take any.

I have known a few people with migraines and it is no joke...  one became addicted to narcotic pain killers and may have died from OD.

Good luck...  I doubt the latest and greatest migraine medicines are at the cheap (free?) window. 

JR

 

[weiss]

There are two approaches in treating migraine. The first is to prevent the attacks from happening by using prophylactic medicine. This is usually done with betablockers which are also used for high blood pressure or heart disease.  It has to be taken continuously, otherwise there is no effect. Mostly this is done when there are a lot of attacks during a single month.
The other approach is to use medicine only during the attack and then use pain modulators like antidepressants and break the attack so to say..
His often  did your wife get these attacks?
There are some other medications she could change to but I guess you alread tried that?

The big downside with these antidepressants is that they modulate a lot of different pathways in your body and therefore have effect on a lot of receptors (amongst others they connect to serotonin receptors, which makes sedation). This is equal to sideeffects.

 

[DaveP]

I doubt the latest and greatest migraine medicines are at the cheap (free?) window.

  The latest actual anti migraine drug is a mono clonal calcium channel blocker but it has not been approved in France yet.

How often  did your wife get these attacks?

  They started the day after she first gave birth and have continued on a roughly monthly basis for 36 years.  Sometimes 3 days in a row.  She had sumatriptan injections in the UK, but they don't have them in France, only tablets, which take longer to work.  Every 6 months she has to cold turkey the sumatriptan because her body finds a way to overcome the effect, this can mean being in bed for 7-10 days with a hell of a headache.

In electronic terms:  Our life is like a piece of essential vintage gear with an untraceable dry solder joint that goes intermittent at critical moments.

DaveP

 

[Spiritworks]

Sorry to hear of your wife's suffering. I pray that she will find some relief.

 

[DaveP]

Thanks Spiritworks, but I think a gene has switched  36 years back and it ain't gonna switch back now.  We had high hopes for the menopause, but no such luck.  We just have to live with some problems, at least we have some normal times unlike some folks with disabilities.

Best
DaveP

 

[Tubetec]

CBD based oils could be worth a try , there available off the shelf here in Ireland probably in France too at this stage . Of course it is based on a substance found in cannabis plants ,that idea might not appeal to everybody , but your not actually 'getting stoned' as the THC is removed . Ive heard  many people with forms of epilepsy  getting great results from the CBD , but its by no means limited to that

There certainly are serious issues with long term medications , I did hear a medical doctor and professor lately basically turning on the pharma/insurance culture that gets people hooked , and keeps adding more pills with more and more side effects . Cholesterol meds are usually the first thing your doctors suggests if your over about 50 , then blood preasure meds . Seems like antidepressants are getting prescribed for many 'off script' purposes now too , you go too the doc now with a problem with your big toe and your likely to come out on happy pills. The longest lived and healthiest people I know stayed well away from doctors their whole lives .
Theres a simple way to reduce your cholesterol , you make better dietary choices and get into regular exercise ,it doesnt need to involve pills at all , there is an expectation nowadays when people visit a doctor .
Ive tried the CBD myself in various forms , not because im in any pain , but just to see the effect , its quite relaxing and you feel 'at ease' after it , the vaping liquid seemed the most effective to me , tastes nice like lemon/lime wine gums and gets to work straight away  , theres no impairment  or giggles .

Could definately be worth doing your own research into the subject . 

 

[DaveP]

CBD based oils could be worth a try

We bought a couple of bottles in Amsterdam for 99 euros! and it worked for about 3 weeks, then back to the usual migraines, which kind of emphasises my topic point.  I agree with all that you say though.

Thanks for the suggestion

DaveP

 

[Youngwhisk]

Dave,  just a thought, but are any of your kids still living with you.....

 

[mjrippe]

I am confused as to why she had to go cold turkey, which often causes a rebound effect.  Could she not taper off her dosages and then go a while without meds before restarting?

 

[Tubetec]

One friend of mine lives with chronic pain , and I can see over time its almost wired itself into his psyche , certain things trigger it ,could just  be words sometimes or a conversation , Doctors really dont have a clue , they just keep prescribing new stuff endlessly , and offering other not so run of the mill experimental treatments or 'off script' usages of other products .

At one point they tried to medicate me ,essentially for trying to come to terms with some stuff that happened way back in my childhood , turned out later the meds they gave me were shown to cause diabeties , and the manufacturer was taken to the cleaners , paid out hundreds of millions ,

Im 45 now and live without any daily pills at all , Ive seen so many people completely messed up from pills along the way , started out as a touch of anxiety ,which is so prevalent nowadays , ended up the come down from pills caused them to display signs of what seemed to be much worse mental illness ,and so began a major downhill trend in their lives .

 

[DaveP]

Dave,  just a thought, but are any of your kids still living with you.....

No they left 20 years ago.

I am confused as to why she had to go cold turkey, which often causes a rebound effect.

If she takes sumatryptan for every migraine, then she soon gets a rebound headache the next day.  Her body tries to counteract the effect of the drug, so it ends up in a viscious cycle which she has to break by going without meds until the rebound stops.  Then she starts over!

DaveP

 

[mjrippe]

If she takes sumatryptan for every migraine, then she soon gets a rebound headache the next day.  Her body tries to counteract the effect of the drug, so it ends up in a viscious cycle which she has to break by going without meds until the rebound stops.  Then she starts over!

Oh, I see.  I was referring specifically to the use of antidepressants which should never be stopped abruptly.  Sending my best wishes for a healthy resolution!

 

[bluebird]

Hi Dave, just chiming in here because I get migraines as well. The sumatryptan  works for me if I take it right when they start, but I feel really weird and out of sorts the next day, not in a good way. I've tried natural remedies like Magnesium and Vitamin B2. That might have helped a bit but not enough. Unfortunately the thing that gives me the most relief is Tylenol 3 with codeine. Doesn't cure the headache but puts it into the background so to speak. Its there but I don't care about it as much. And I'm sure you know the dangers of opiate addiction, so you have to be very careful with the frequency of use.

I have not tried it but a female security guard at my work has taken Psychedelic mushrooms, and one "trip" got her 6 months of no migraines.  I'm a little scared to try that but its being talked about more and more. Something you may want to look into.

All I know is that  migraine pain is like no other type of pain. Its in your head where YOU reside. Its as if your very soul is being squeezed to the breaking point. Lord have mercy.

Ian

 

[Phrazemaster]

Hi Dave, just chiming in here because I get migraines as well. The sumatryptan  works for me if I take it right when they start, but I feel really weird and out of sorts the next day, not in a good way. I've tried natural remedies like Magnesium and Vitamin B2. That might have helped a bit but not enough. Unfortunately the thing that gives me the most relief is Tylenol 3 with codeine. Doesn't cure the headache but puts it into the background so to speak. Its there but I don't care about it as much. And I'm sure you know the dangers of opiate addiction, so you have to be very careful with the frequency of use.

I have not tried it but a female security guard at my work has taken Psychedelic mushrooms, and one "trip" got her 6 months of no migraines.  I'm a little scared to try that but its being talked about more and more. Something you may want to look into.

All I know is that  migraine pain is like no other type of pain. Its in your head where YOU reside. Its as if your very soul is being squeezed to the breaking point. Lord have mercy.

Ian

Yes it is crippling indeed.

I’m fortunate not to get headaches often but I’ve had some doozies. Can’t say they were migraines but they were horrific.

Hope you can find something that works.

Mike

 

[scott2000]

I've heard Botox injections work for some........ At least to whom I've spoken to who's friend had the same story as your wife regarding meds losing effectiveness.....

And staying hydrated,breathing exercises,yoga, meditation and more overall awareness of it's root cause was the thing that helped the one I asked directly  ......  she's pretty into all that..... so the awareness of it's root cause may not be some medical term she got from a doctor I'm guessing.....

 

[DaveP]

Yes, she tried a Botox injection to subdue a nerve in her scalp but it did nothing.

I am convinced that something triggered a genetic switch in her case and nothing short of gene therapy will fix it.

She has been under Prof. Goadsby at the neuralogical hospital at Great Ormond Street in London, he was the top guy in that field until he retired and went to work on the latest CGRP (calcitonin gene-related peptide drugs like  Erenumab (Aimovig) .

50 years from now they will be able to fix it,  but not in our lifetime methinks.

DaveP