Questions For Fairchild Inventor

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Also be sure to have an audio recorder on hand. Many times, people who aren't comfortable with being videotaped will consent to a voice recording.

I have a couple of questions for Mr. Narma...

What was the state of the art at the time you began this project? What shortcomings in the existing technology were you trying to address in your design? Were you working to meet a particular set of specs?
 
> camcorder this meeting.

OK, but I'd MUCH rather have a clear audio transcript and a few stills than a crummy videotape by a nervous interviewer. :roll:

There is a subset of the general iPod thing that has a microphone for recording dictation and lectures. $100 buys one small enough to clip to his lapel and ensure clear speech :grin: (we'll assume you'll remember your questions and anyhow your words are not as important as his remarks :wink: ).

You know the IEEE has a standing request for a Narma "Oral History" project? I think the actual project is in my town. I doubt they can put up a wad of cash, but might buy the pocket recorder and lend some prestige to the interview. Though you might rather hog the glory than see it lost on the IEEE site....

You can probably find a local typist to transcribe the talk to text, but I'm surrounded by secretaries who might do it, and I'd help with jargon.
 
Here's my key question (posed as an assertion to refute):

Either there is a mistake in the best drawings known, or the 12AX7 in the front of the rectifier driver runs in "Class B" for high settings of the DC Threshold pot. No?

As I make it out, at high DC Threshold, the 12AX7 grids are grounded, while the cathode is lifted to about +8V by 3 resistors and a pot. At 8V, a 12AX7 will be in cut-off. Sufficiently high audio input will cause conduction on peaks. That means the whole rectifier driver is idle except when peaking.

The effect of this is to cause no output from the rectifier for low or medium signals. Combined with a high AC Threshold setting, it gives a very sharp knee on the curve (curve 5 in the manual).

Most other tube limiters set the curve with an AC gain control (often fixed for simplicity) and a DC back-bias on the rectifier. The Fairchild seems to run very little back-bias on the rectifier, maybe only enough to match the pre-bias on the vari-gain stage cathodes. But the schematic I have does not show these voltages, nor the critical DCR value on the negative supply choke.
 
> The compressor it was originally based on - was that a Siemens? Model number?

Do we know it was based on some specific predecessor?

While there was a large body of other limiters, and this probably grew out of dissatisfaction with all the others(?), presuming it was "based on" something else might be insulting (or illuminating). I'd phrase that question carefully. Maybe lead-in with a survey of what other limiters were around at the time, and which ones he liked or found fault with.

And it seems somewhat unlikely he would have had a Siemens. I could be VERY wrong. But generally, audio gear did not cross the ocean much in those days. The USA had RCA and Altec and UREI and lots of other home teams, founded when radio and talking-movies were BIG money. The UK and Germany and other Euro countries had their own broadcast and recording gear, some of it very fine and not stuck in the US ruts. But distance and communications and regulations and voltages and martini lunches stood between them and the US market.

> Why is there a tapped pot on the control amp input ? Is it essential that it is tapped?

I'd like to know more too. But with a plain linear pot, the "5" position would be -6dB. With the tap and resistor, the "5" position is -15dB. A common "audio taper" would be -20dB. So if you don't need strict calibration, you could use an "audio" pot directly, or a linear pot but be cramped in the lower end of rotation. And maybe he could not get an audio taper pot of the requisite quality and matching (still hard today). An alternative would be a Daven/Shalco stepped attenuator ahead of the control amp input transformer, though that loads the vari-gain stage and is expensive. Or he could have custom-ordered a 180K Daven at frightful cost. And maybe you need better than 2dB or 1.5dB resolution when cutting disk levels.

> Why is the power supply regulated in some parts & not others?

If unregulated, the threshold voltages vary with line voltage. The vari-gain plate voltage and the 12AX7 voltages are all fixed.

But some stages don't need to be regulated. The 10 Watt output tubes sure don't need regulation: they make what they are told to make and ignore variation in supply. And the grid-bias on those tubes can be unregulated. If line voltage rose very high, letting grid voltage go negative keeps the plate dissipation from soaring. Also the control amp does not care about "crossover distortion", it only has to reproduce the peaks cleanly.

What still has me puzzled or amazed is: the vari-gain cathode bias and the back-bias on the rectifiers are both unregulated. They do track. I assume they actually cancel across the vari-gain tubes' grid and cathode, and over the likely range of wall voltages their exact value does not matter much. That is a very clever design observation, one I would not make when today I could slap a 7912 neg-reg in there faster than I could think about the real situation.

> why did he design it in the first place? I'm sure it wasnt for bass guitar

Rock on, man!

The stereo version is VERY clearly sold as a disk-cutting limiter. There was a mono before that, and again the fast time constants match disk-cutting problems. A radio limiter does not have to be so fast; overmodulation won't hurt the transmitter, you just need to keep the splat so short that nobody complains. In disk-cutting, overmodulation runs the cutter into the next groove, ruining the cut. And the time constant will catch anything you can get from a tape or disk source. The other media that needed fast limiting was RCA's film-sound ribbon shutter, but RCA made limiters for that (I have heard they were forced to develop limiting so they did not have to use WE-patent film-sound).
 
Hey Keith,
Whose beast were you working on up here? There can't be too many.
I wonder if it's the one I used to get to play with.

PRR said:
Either there is a mistake in the best drawings known
Other than only showing half the 6386s?

But the schematic I have does not show these voltages
Somewhere, and it's been a long time since I've seen it, which at my house could mean anything, I have/had a copy of the original schematic which I marked up with a lot of the voltages not on it already at a variety of GR settings. Now I'm going to have to look for the darn thing. :cry:
 
It looks like Mr. Narma is on the AES Historical Committee's list of recommended interviewees:
http://www.aes.org/aeshc/docs/oralhist/ohp-recommended-interviewees.html
They might be interested in this project.
 
AES's interview guidelines:
http://www.aes.org/aeshc/docs/oralhist/interview-guidelines.html
Some silly-stuff here, but still a good check-list.

If you take AES help, AES owns all rights. Including the right to sit on it.

Narma was already interviewed by AES:
http://www.aes.org/aeshc/docs/oralhist/interview.master.pub.040927a.pdf page 3

Wonder how we see that? Oh: "Because we have only a small volunteer staff, we will edit these recordings as time permits into a form that we can make available. At this time, none of the interviews are available."

Someone needs to volunteer. Copy the Narma videotape to DVD, slap the audio to an MP3 dictaphone, hire someone to transcribe it, and organize a website with stills, transcript, audio, and video.
 
Aurt

Somewhere, and it's been a long time since I've seen it, which at my house could mean anything, I have/had a copy of the original schematic which I marked up with a lot of the voltages not on it already at a variety of GR settings. Now I'm going to have to look for the darn thing.

If you could manage to find & scan this diagram it would be one big help, when I start putting my clone together. Please !!! :wink:
 
If it's still possible to enter here, I was wondering if the first prototype was tuned up in Les Paul's living room as I had heard?

And PRR, I think yer right about the 12AX7 being progressively pushed into class-b (differential, thank god) as the DC threshold gets set towards peak limit. That forces only the tips of the waveforms to be amplified.
Makes sense.

hell, it might be into class c!
 
OK, looks like I might get another chance.
Received this AM:

<Hi, I am fine, thank you for asking.
I will be back on the West coast sometimes in August, may be we have a chance to meet then.
Send me any questions you have about the "670" and I will attempt to answer as soon as I can. I travel a lot, please do not expect immediate response.
Regards,
Rein>

We were suposed to get together last spring but it never happened.
Hopefuly this timel....
cj
 
Or something like:

"What other fast-type limiters were available at the time - and what properties of these did you want to incorporate into the unit?"

"Was it originally intended primarily for record-cutting, or was the scope broader?"

Jakob E.
 
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