Rainwater harvesting

[abbey road d enfer]

I had heard that rainwater harvesting is illegal in certain states in the US. I know in Indiana they were trying to pass a law saying that you couldn't harvest electricity through solar panels.

Wow! Nostalgia of monopolies...
In France, producing electricity, by whatever means, has been forbidden to individuals from the beginnings of power distribution. However, a number of companies were licensed, but it was kept hush-hush. In the last 20 years, though, under the pressure of the Greens, the government has put a number of incentives, like buying electricity at 5 times the public price! Now they have calmed down, and concentrate on domestic installations limited to 3kWc.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Wow! Nostalgia of monopolies...
In France, producing electricity, by whatever means, has been forbidden to individuals from the beginnings of power distribution. However, a number of companies were licensed, but it was kept hush-hush. In the last 20 years, though, under the pressure of the Greens, the government has put a number of incentives, like buying electricity at 5 times the public price! Now they have calmed down, and concentrate on domestic installations limited to 3kWc.

I'm shocked... (not.. its what governments do).

My brother living in lala land (SOCAL) has a tax subsidized solar array, and now that he isn't charging his wife's tesla for her daily commute, he is pumping electricity back into the grid.  :

Water shortages can be significant when people cheat to water their lawns. Water rights are important to farmers in some regions (more than others).

I am not getting paid to pump electricity back into the grid, but my power company told me I am using 11% less energy than my nearby efficient neighbors. I can live with that.

JR

 

[Script]

Not about rainwater but...

For instance,  no need to flush toilets with potable water.

Agreed, but hardly doable in an existing site. Adding a recycling tank , with associated plumbery and pump is a major endeavour.

Japanese answer looks like this :
The Washbasin Toilet -- standard in most Japanese houses.
Also available in other countries (co.uk for one).
Or could DIY.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Not about rainwater but...Agreed, but hardly doable in an existing site. Adding a recycling tank , with associated plumbery and pump is a major endeavour.Japanese answer looks like this :
The Washbasin Toilet -- standard in most Japanese houses.
Also available in other countries (co.uk for one).
Or could DIY.

Clever.... smartest thing I've seen in the brewery for a long time.

======
FWIW years ago before I figured out that my under sink RO water filter had a broken flow restrictor the bypass water flow was excessive. I plumbed a small plastic line to dump the excess water into my toilet tank. After replacing the flow restrictor with one that worked properly the bypass flow was much reduced so I removed the tubing.  This was not all that clever in hindsight but I did not immediately diagnose the RO issue properly.

JR

 

[abbey road d enfer]

Not about rainwater but...Agreed, but hardly doable in an existing site. Adding a recycling tank , with associated plumbery and pump is a major endeavour.Japanese answer looks like this :
The Washbasin Toilet -- standard in most Japanese houses.

I have installed one in my Parisian flat, where there was not enough room for a separate washbasin.
The quantity of water used for washing hands is negligible compared to even a half-flush. IMO it solves a practical problem, but is only a minor step forward regarding water conservation.
Notwithstanding people who don't wash hands after peeing... 

 

[JohnRoberts]

I have installed one in my Parisian flat, where there was not enough room for a separate washbasin.
The quantity of water used for washing hands is negligible compared to even a half-flush. IMO it solves a practical problem, but is only a minor step forward regarding water conservation.
Notwithstanding people who don't wash hands after peeing... 

There was an old joke between Harvard men, and Yale men about washing their hands after peeing... The punchline was that (insert your school of choice) men don't pee on their hands.  8)

JR

 

[Script]

The quantity of water used for washing hands is negligible compared to even a half-flush

Agreed. Water-tank toilets are awfully wasteful. Only reason I can think of is for higher flushing momentum to prevent turds enbalmbed in way too much paper from clogging the pipe.

Well, other than for that could lower the tank's floater, which saves an extra bit of water.

And could reintroduce the momentary lever to trigger tank release (they do exist but not standard in Japan). I should really think about this latter more, as I paid the latest water bill just yesterday.

 

[abbey road d enfer]

Agreed. Water-tank toilets are awfully wasteful. Only reason I can think of is for higher flushing momentum to prevent turds enbalmbed in way too much paper from clogging the pipe.

Well, other than for that could lower the tank's floater, which saves an extra bit of water.

And could reintroduce the momentary lever to trigger tank release (they do exist but not standard in Japan). I should really think about this latter more, as I paid the latest water bill just yesterday.

Or you could flush the toilet only once a day... 
Seriously, the bulk of water consumption is in bath/showers (accounts for nearly 40% in the western world); I think that's where the efforts must be directed, and it's all a matter of self discipline.
There are many gadgets supposed to reduce water consumption, like those water flow reducers, that only make filling the kettle a chore; even the half/full flush ends up being unproductive when you find you have wrongly pressed the half flush and you have to press again the full flush, for a global 50% increase.
Like almost anything related to the environment, it all boils down to individual discipline.

 

[Script]

Or you could flush the toilet only once a day...

Sounds rather enticing, if I were single...

I think toilets are hopelessly over-designed. Just retrofitted for toilet tank momentary lever by piggybacking a weight onto the plug inside the tank. Flushing now still gives full initial momentum -- until letting go of the lever immediately shuts it off,  cos the added weight makes the (stopper?)-plug sink not float.

Full-tank flush now involves the tiny nuisance of having  to push down and keep holding the lever untill the bloddy tank has finally finished emptying out -- the opposite of what it was before.

Will have to see how that goes down with the family -- literally

 

[JohnRoberts]

Sounds rather enticing, if I were single...

I think toilets are hopelessly over-designed. Just retrofitted for toilet tank momentary lever by piggybacking a weight onto the plug inside the tank. Flushing now still gives full initial momentum -- until letting go of the lever immediately shuts it off,  cos the added weight makes the (stopper?)-plug sink not float.

Full-tank flush now involves the tiny nuisance of having  to push down and keep holding the lever untill the bloddy tank has finally finished emptying out -- the opposite of what it was before.

Will have to see how that goes down with the family -- literally

Back when I was working in an office we had one co-worker who probably had a flaky home septic tank system. He would never flush after he urinated and it was a little annoying in an office setting to find the bowl preloaded..  :

JR

PS; Modern toilets are engineered to use far less water than old designs and still effectively discharge the waste.

 

[Script]

PS; Modern toilets are engineered to use far less water than old designs and still effectively discharge the waste.

Yes, yet they are also designed to effectively work at all time under worst case assumption of very bad waste pipes plus heaviest of flush loads -- and that, did I mention it, at all time.

PS
Might have to tweak some more, since now, after effective flush, the tank most often fills up faster (automatic, no lever there) than it takes me to effectively wash my hands in the top-mounted washbasin. But I guess that's a good thing -- can always release some more water if needed.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Yes, yet they are also designed to effectively work at all time under worst case assumption of very bad waste pipes plus heaviest of flush loads -- and that, did I mention it, at all time.

PS
Might have to tweak some more, since now, after effective flush, the tank most often fills up faster (automatic, no lever there) than it takes me to effectively wash my hands in the top-mounted washbasin. But I guess that's a good thing -- can always release some more water if needed.

Most toilets (here at least) have a cut off valve in the water feed line. You can reduce the flow with that valve to slow fill up time.

JR

 

[cuelist]

I think Belgium has two grades of water supplied to domestic customers .

I lived in Belgium between 2005 and 2012 - and we built a house there in 2007/2008 and it was mandatory to have a 10.000 litre tank for rainwater harvesting. It was installed below ground and in case it got empty, we had a tap to 'emergency refill' from regular water supplied by the city. We used the harvested ("grey") water for the toilets and gardening. I don't think there are two parallel supply systems, maybe in some very recently built areas.

Back in Sweden now and we're considering getting a tank here as well.

 

[abbey road d enfer]

We used the harvested ("grey") water for the toilets and gardening. I don't think there are two parallel supply systems, maybe in some very recently built areas.

So you had separate lines and a pump system?

 

[crazydoc]

At my house we've been doing this for 30 years (first saw it posted in a john in the Colorado rockies): "If it's yellow let it mellow; if it's brown, flush it down."

I'm on a well, so it not only saves water but electricity too (and never had the septic pumped either.)


One of my favorite memes:

 

[Gold]

If we build a real structure where we just have a camp now we will install a grey water system.

There is an abundance of fresh water in the Adirondacks and we have a well.  It rains there a lot. If not technically a rain forest it’s close. If it doesn’t rain for a week it looks dry. The ground can take a tremendous amount of water.

We like the composting toilet we have. We would probably get a fancier one for a house .Dishwater and bathing water would  empty to a grey water tank instead of a septic system. The way they are usually built is a concrete tube that is sits on and is filled with gravel and sand.

Right now we empty water out the door of the sheds. They sit on eight truckloads of gravel fill so is pretty close to a legit grey water system.

 

[cuelist]

So you had separate lines and a pump system?

Yes indeed.

 

[abbey road d enfer]

Yes indeed.

It's weird how we seem to ignore this in France.
My house is built on a slope, so I have pumps that elevate the water(s) to the sewage. People who visit have no idea what it is...

 

[JohnRoberts]

It's weird how we seem to ignore this in France.
My house is built on a slope, so I have pumps that elevate the water(s) to the sewage. People who visit have no idea what it is...

I am aware of home improvement projects where somebody refurbishes a basement to turning it into a finished living space. Bathrooms installed lower than the sewer line connection need a pump to raise waste water and whatever up to facilitate proper discharge flow.  Seems like an opportunity for disaster, but apparently a mature technology.

JR

 

[cyrano]

I lived in Belgium between 2005 and 2012 - and we built a house there in 2007/2008 and it was mandatory to have a 10.000 litre tank for rainwater harvesting. It was installed below ground and in case it got empty, we had a tap to 'emergency refill' from regular water supplied by the city. We used the harvested ("grey") water for the toilets and gardening. I don't think there are two parallel supply systems, maybe in some very recently built areas.

Back in Sweden now and we're considering getting a tank here as well.

My house, built by my grandfather almost a century ago, has always had a rainwater reservoir in the attic feeding the toilets. It's about 10.000 l, but in the last few years there's not enough rain to supply water all year around. That never happened in the first 80 years or so...

There's less people and less water for gardening used these days too. There are no leaks. And, yeah, it's ten tons in the attic when it's full.

I've had to adapt the automatic feeding system of modern toilets a bit as the venturi in there expects at least 1 bar pressure, which the tank obviously doesn't supply.