Ribbon Microphone consistency

[fum]

So,

I've been messin with a pile of ribbon microphones(all the same model) for the last hour or so, and thought I'd post some findings. I don't claim this to be the most scientific of evals, but a "just use reasonable sense" approach to evaluation.

I setup a PA monitor in my main room with a mic stand about 2 feet back, with a 1K sine wave playing at a reasonable volume (88 dB). I setup a mic pre in the room, with the output of the mic pre going to my Fluke 111.

Measuring the output with the meter set to AC volts, I proceeded to check a bunch(8) microphones, 4 from one box, and 4 from another box (they came in boxes of ten), to see how consistent they were.

My overall impression of the microphone is that the output is very low. I cranked the mic pre ( a Dean Jensen mic pre from the UWP console), and was getting readings between .50 and .56 volts.

As a comparison, if I grab an SM57 microphone off the shelf, with the exact same settings, I get 1.47 volts. Much hotter output.

I recorded some acoustic guitar with one of them, and ended up using two mic pre channels (one feeding the other), in order to get things up to a decent recording level. What I got, recording-wize, I was pleased with. Had a decent character to it. Didn't notice it as particularly noisy or anything.

Comments/suggestions?

ju

 

[SilverhammerNZ]

Hi ju me again,

With my Nady ribbon I use a Joe Meek VC3 (earlier model with enhancer rather than eq), I do have it nearly full up, this goes into my TLAudio compressor (where I make up a little gain as well) and then into my DAW.

I find at this setting I can set the mic about 18inches away and record nice acoustic guitar. Not struggling for gain with this arrangement.

The ribbon mic will be fussy as to what pre it likes best, due to impedance interface. This general lack of gain is what puts a lot of people off ribbon mics but when they are set up right it's magic.

And of course there are a lot of situations where the source is already quite loud and the ribbon loves this, miked amps, percussion, flutes, sax and other brass all give out heaps and the ribbon starts to go to work.

In my booth I have a Neumann set up for everyday voice overs and vocals, with the ribbon standing by for sax, tambourine and as I've said, acoustic guitar. There are ribbon mics and there are ribbon mics of course, the Nady and others of similar ilk, while certainly not at the top of the tree, are useable tools without a doubt imho.

Can take a bit of getting used to I guess.

Larry

 

[clintrubber]

Hi,

Anything to be said about sample to sample variations ?

From Rossi I already understood they seem quite consistent, but since you have this many mics now, your observations could be more 'statistically valid' (...)

As long as the tonal balance is alike, I guess variations in sensitivity are not that worse.

Thanks,

Peter

 

[Guest]

Ribbon mics definetly take alot of gain... My BK-5 eats gain like crazy, but the results are stunning when used with the right pre. Of course, it does has a very low impedance output...

 

[Rossi]

As I told Peter (we had a little e-mail conversation) I have two Thomann ribbons which I bought maybe 6 weeks apart. So they're not from the same box; the cable of the later one looks a little different.

I measured the difference between the two using the RMAA in acoustics mode (http://audio.rightmark.org). When you're careful, that method is pretty accurate, because external factors are cancelled out when you substract one graph from the other. You have to make sure those external factors (room resonances, mic position & angle) are absolutely the same for each measurement, of course.

The main differences between the two mics was in bass response. the later mic was about 3 dB more sensitive below 100 Hz at the maximum of the curve. Other than that, the differences were hardly more than +/- 1 dB. So consistency between these random two was pretty good. Not an exact stereo pair, but certainly usable as such.

Yes, the output is low, which as you know is typical for a ribbon mic. Hence the active ribbon thread at the drawing board.

 

[mike_relay]

[quote author="SilverhammerNZ"]The ribbon mic will be fussy as to what pre it likes best, due to impedance interface. [/quote]

Has anyone used that Presonus Eureka with the variable input impedance (or anything similar) with a ribbon mic? Every time I look at it, the salesman is saying "great for ribbon mics!"

 

[Category 5]

I HAVE used that pre, and would have to assume the saleman is correct. The Eureka is a fantastic sounding pre (not so much a good sounding EQ though, and an uninspiring comp.). The input transformer IS variable impedance, so you could probably dial in a better impedance match for your ribbons. It does have plenty of gain by most standards.

Presonus mentioned that the input was inspired by the Vipre, and while I can't verify that it uses the same Cinemag transformer, at the very least it uses a pretty darn good copy.

Shane

 

[CJ]

You need a V76 to use with those ribbons. 76 db gain and no noise.
Talk to Tommypiper about the results.
cj

 

[tommypiper]

Well, the noise floor does creep up on mine when you're approaching 70dB gain... depends partly on the mic. Yes, I use ribbons with the V76 and it's usually a good match. Normally don't need to go up past 50 something dB in gain, even on acoustic instruments. A recent experience suggests a 1272/1290 with hi gain may also be good with a ribbon.... I believe Ollie has told me the input inpedence on the V76 is around 150 ohm, maybe 200. CJ, do you know? Seems like that would load the ribbon. It's higher input impedence in the 1272 family, but I can't recall. Is it 1200? (Edit: yes, normally wired 1200.)

I may be able to get my hands on some things and do some listen tests in a few days on the new mics.

 

[chrissugar]

"It's higher input impedence in the 1272 family, but I can't recall. Is it 1200?"

The Neve1272, 1290 1073 have 300ohm if the primaries are in parallel or 1200ohm in series.

chrissugar

 

[clintrubber]

Hi,

If anyone's interested: (attempt to a) thread about the use of those budget ribbons is here:
http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=6277