Scully 280 Tape Counter

[a soBer Newt]

This is totally hairbrained but how would you go about designing a tape counter for a Scully 280? I am thinking an Arduino with a hall effect sensor on the capstan.

 

[Barry Hufker]

Here is a discussion on that subject from another forum. Digital tape counter for R-R deck

You bring back fond memories. My first professional recorder was a Scully 280 four-track (1/2"). We kept locations using China markers and paper flags in between tape layers.

 

[Brian Roth]

This is totally hairbrained but how would you go about designing a tape counter for a Scully 280? I am thinking an Arduino with a hall effect sensor on the capstan.

A sensor just on the capstan won't know where you are located on the tape if you rewind, fast forward, etc.

Bri

 

[Barry Hufker]

Studer and Scully had their solutions (as does the link above) using a disc "coder" alternating 1 and 0 on an idler. Maybe others did this too but Scully and Studer are the ones I worked with.

 

[Brian Roth]

The first electronic "tape counter" I recall was a box built by Eventide Clockworks and sold by Ampex for the MM-1000 (also MM-1100?) multitrack recorders. Readouts were Nixie tubes.

It included a "search to zero/cue" function which was hilarious in operation. Engineer selected a "cue point" and the tape transport went RACING at full speed (FF or REW) towards that point. Passing the cue point, it toggled FULL SPEED in the opposite direction. Whoops....way overshoot again. Full speed opposite position....overshoot again. LOL. Took many back and forth togglings before it finally landed at a "close enough" point before giving up and stopping.

Totally useless for locating....BUT did display a reasonably accurate position for the tape. I just used the Nixies to see where I was and manually toggled the transport with my fingers,

Bri

 

[Brian Roth]

Back on topic...

As Barry mentioned, the electronic counter was "triggered" by a slotted disc mounted beneath a rotating drum somewhere in the tape path. The slots interrupted a light beam using something like this:

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Omron-Electronics/EE-SX1105?qs=Pjd0UV7BHP8iKigbDe5avg==
At least two of those "optical switches" were required for the counter circuitry to determine which direction the rotating drum and slotted disk were turning.

A similar variant used a rotating disk with alternating reflective and dark wedges.

Bri

 

[MidnightArrakis]

I just used the Nixies to see where I was and manually toggled the transport with my fingers,

[I just used the Nixies to see where I was] -- Maybe these days you could use the Nixie tubes connected to some GPS circuitry and the Nixies could display your location coordinates!!! Just a thought.....(HA!!! HA!!! HA!!!.....)

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[a soBer Newt]

Thank you all for the good information, looks like something I can do just not in two weeks before a session.

 

[Gold]

Lyrec made stand alone tape counters you could add to any tape machine. I looked on the bay and also German ebay and didn’t see any. They come up pretty often though.

 

[CalavoBob]

About 20 years ago I designed and built a timer/counter for an Otari 7308 using an Atmel microcontroller which worked well and stopped on 0 too. I have recently designed a version of it to use on a Scully 280B. I have also just finished the pcbs and code for a 5 function autolocator that plugs into the timer/counter. There is a 3rd deck interface pcb that is machine specific that plugs into the remote socket under the deck to take control over Play, Fast Forward, Rewind, Record. and Stop. I was about to announce this product after I get my order of PCBs back this month. I need to find out how many Otari 7308 and Scully 280B owners are interested in this invention. I'm planning to make an interface for Ampex 440s, and 350s too.

 

[a soBer Newt]

About 20 years ago I designed and built a timer/counter for an Otari 7308 using an Atmel microcontroller which worked well and stopped on 0 too. I have recently designed a version of it to use on a Scully 280B. I have also just finished the pcbs and code for a 5 function autolocator that plugs into the timer/counter. There is a 3rd deck interface pcb that is machine specific that plugs into the remote socket under the deck to take control over Play, Fast Forward, Rewind, Record. and Stop. I was about to announce this product after I get my order of PCBs back this month. I need to find out how many Otari 7308 and Scully 280B owners are interested in this invention. I'm planning to make an interface for Ampex 440s, and 350s too.

OH that's super cool, might need to get one for my 440 deck.

 

[MidnightArrakis]

About 20 years ago I designed and built a timer/counter for an Otari 7308 and I have recently designed a version of it to use on a Scully 280B. I have also just finished the pcbs.

[About 20 years ago I designed and built a timer/counter for an Otari 7308 and I have recently designed a version of it to use on a Scully 280B. I have also just finished the pcbs] -- While it sounds as though you probably have everything about your "Timer/Counter Design/Invention" totally under control, should you -- might -- need any mechanical design and/or "Electronics Packaging" assistance of your product, feel free to contact me, OK??? My type of background is with the combined "Mechanical Design/PCB Design" of electronic equipment. A "Design Portfolio" is available upon request. My working on projects like yours "scratches an itch" that I have for designing "Pro-Audio" gear whenever I can. As you also probably well know.....it's just friggin' fun!!!

All I need are some basic X/Y/Z mechanical dimensions, component hole cutout locations and sizes (or, component MFG. Part Numbers and I can look them up myself) and I could come up with a 3D CAD-model of an enclosure and a PCB in relatively short-order that would be something like this:




[I have also just finished the pcbs] -- I also have a special program here-at-home that imports both the GERBER and the N/C Drill data files of a PCB-layout and included within it are some GERBER analysis routines that are designed to detect various PCB fabrication and/or manufacturing issues. Some other members of this forum have sent me their GERBER and N/C Drill data files in order to make certain that their files were "OK" before they sent them out. Should you wish to share your GERBER and N/C Drill data files with me, I would be more than happy to check them out for you and let you know what, if anything, shows up. Since this program that I have is a "GERBER Editing" program, any issues/problems that may be discovered within your files can be resolved by manipulating the imported data to meet standard fabrication guidelines and/or standards. I'm just throwing this out here so you can know that these types of things are available to you.....should you wish to utilize them in your design work.

But.....if you wanna do the whole thing yerself.....that's OK, too!!! I unnerstand dat!!!

I'm just offering some assistance.....only if you want it.

NOTE: I once worked at AMPEX there in Redwood City, CA in their "PCB Design Department" a long, long, long, long time ago!!!

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[CalavoBob]

Hi MidnightArrakis,
At this point I'm handling the Timer Counter and Autolocator myself but you seem to have some impressive talents. If I run into some snags I'll keep you in mind. Each machine model is a little different, requiring some modifications to my code and deck interface, but I've made this thing fairly universal as much as possible. I know how to check my PCBs for manufacturing problems so that's not a concern at this point. Depending on the amount and type of interest I get on this site, I'll be deciding if I want to produce a finished product for sale, or supply users with my pcbs, programmed microcontrollers and a parts kit. that they can put together themselves.

I made my first one a long time ago because it drove me crazy running analog tape and not knowing where I was on the reel. I still love and use analog tape. I think it sounds great. If folks have old Otaris, Scullys, and Ampexes I think you might be interested in one of these. What other good decks are people using that don't have timer counters on them?

 

[MidnightArrakis]

Hi MidnightArrakis,
At this point I'm handling the Timer Counter and Autolocator myself but you seem to have some impressive talents. If I run into some snags I'll keep you in mind. Each machine model is a little different, requiring some modifications to my code and deck interface, but I've made this thing fairly universal as much as possible. I know how to check my PCBs for manufacturing problems so that's not a concern at this point. Depending on the amount and type of interest I get on this site, I'll be deciding if I want to produce a finished product for sale, or supply users with my pcbs, programmed microcontrollers and a parts kit. that they can put together themselves.

I made my first one a long time ago because it drove me crazy running analog tape and not knowing where I was on the reel. I still love and use analog tape. I think it sounds great. If folks have old Otaris, Scullys, and Ampexes I think you might be interested in one of these. What other good decks are people using that don't have timer counters on them?

[At this point I'm handling the Timer Counter and Autolocator myself] -- That's fine. I was merely introducing myself and letting you know that additional assistance is available, if needed. That's all.

[you seem to have some impressive talents] -- Awwwww.....shucks!!! I manage to get by.

[requiring some modifications to my code and deck interface] -- And.....I understand that. I was only relating to the "physical" aspect of your Timer/Counter in both the mechanical and PCB-design details. Hopefully, that would be a simple single-piece device that would be the same for all and every type/make/model of tape-deck.

[supply users with my pcbs, programmed microcontrollers and a parts kit] -- Within this particular forum, I believe that this would be your best option.

[I know how to check my PCBs for manufacturing problems] -- Like THIS???.....COOL!!!

Functionality
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Used for working with NC-Drill and NC-Mill data. Importing, exporting, and creation capabilities are included. Minor editing is also included for the purposes of changing drill tool definitions, adding basic mill paths to assembly panels, and changing or working with break tabs.

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Automates the sub-panel process. Allows for the creation of panel templates, which can be used and stored for reuse. Populate panels in either an automatic stepping mode or use spreadsheet mode for total control. Does not allow the use of symbols.

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Import the Mentor/Valor ODB++ design exchange format.

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Automation Toolkit (including Macro Debugger)
Debugger for Macro Script development. Set watch points and intelligent break points, analyze variables, etc.

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Export the IPC-2581 exchange format. This offers increased compatibility with various EDA tools and Assembly & Fabrication houses.

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Analyzes design and creates a design report for fabrication quoting and design qualification.

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Automates the full panelization process. Allows for creation of panel templates, intelligent coupons, pinning holes, fiducials, and title blocks. Populate panels in either an automatic stepping mode or use a spreadsheet for total control. Venting and thieving are fully automated as well, processing multiple layers in either a positive or negative polarity with user defined patterns.

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Advanced editing environment automates fabrication efforts involving milling and drilling of printed circuit boards and panels. NOTE: Requires the purchase of the Basic NC Editor module if the configuration to which the Advanced NC Editor module is being added does not already include the Basic NC Editor module.

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A feature unique is Reverse Engineering which allows you to start with non-intelligent Gerber data and work it back in to an intelligent format a CAD system will understand. Items that are supported included Netlist information, Part information with RefDes, as well as some Attribute data. Please check with your sales representative as to which CAD interfaces support Attributes.

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Imports PADS PCB design tool databases.

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Imports databases in the GENCAD assembly format.

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GENCAD Interface-Export
Exports databases in the GENCAD assembly format.

Reverse Engineering
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[not knowing where I was on the reel] -- That is nowhere nearly as bad as President Biden not knowing where he is in general!!! SORRY!!! I couldn't help myself with that one!!!

[I still love and use analog tape] -- ME, TOO!!! I still have a small fleet of 2-track, 4-track and 8-track (and, NOT the car-stereo 8-track!!!) machines here. I even still have boxes of AMPEX 7" reels and 10-1/2" pancakes. I figure that when I die and I'm being cremated, that the funeral home can also just toss in my boxes of my beloved AMPEX tapes and my tapes and I can "become one" as our smoke and ashes swirl around together!!! -- GEEZ!!! -- Where did THAT idea from???

[I think it sounds great] -- YEPPER!!! You just cannot -- NOT LOVE -- the smooth sounds of analog tape!!! YEAH!!!

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