Spring Reverb Design - A Masteroom Clone with Springs or DSP

[SSLtech]

Interestingly EMT researched the density properties of plates versus rooms. They determined that with plates, the reflection density increased as a function of time squared. With rooms, the reflection density increases as a function of time cubed. -They also surmised that the ear doesn't discriminate between these two rates of progressively-increasing density.

Since plates have (to all practical purposes) only two (significant) dimensions, and rooms have three, I wonder if a spring -which only has one significant dimension- would exhibit a fairly constant reflection density?

I never read anything on that...

Anyhow... Wayne, a mutual friend of ours had a micmix spring. It still has a "property of..." sticker on it, though it was still at the local SSL studio which he used to work at.

I could probably get hold of it, should it prove useful to any cloning/invetigative efforts....

By the way, I always wondered about MicMix: Did the company name come from microphon mixers? -It seems an obvious guess, but I always assumed and never asked...

Keith

 

[SSLtech]

Oh and yes... I'm always fascinated by the nuggets and bon-bons which people rediscover years afterwards. -I vote for "Wayne's Filing Cabinet"!

Keith

 

[ruairioflaherty]

Hey Wayne,

I've been working like a dog all week so I took a day off today. I'm heading to town with a copy of "The Reverberation Dilema" and drinking coffee for the afternoon! I'd love to see a spring reverb project evolve though I've so many projects on the burner I may not get to build it for a while.

For those like me who were not familiar with the RoomMaster here is a link to a website with the manual

http://electronics.audiopervert.com/micmix_index.htm

The HTML format is not great but it has lots of good info, a PDF will probably follow from Wayne. I'm totally in favour of Wayne's Filling cabinet and have really been enjoying the evolution of your mic pre and the MS circuits,

cheers,
Ruairi

 

[SSLtech]

I'm not posting much, because I don't have anything to offer, but I DO want to say that I'm checking in frequently, to see where this heads!

Keith

 

[NewYorkDave]

This kicks ass!

Accutronics are good people. I ordered some custom tanks from them in the early '90s for a short run of tube reverb units, and they couldn't have been more pleasant to deal with.

 

[Sleeper]

just wanted to chime in along with ssltech... watching with great interest but not much to add. I love good spring reverb, I've been periodically messing with an old pioneer ra500 spring unit, mostly for fun and to make it usable as the front panel is the coolest thing ever.
my spring drive is the weak link at the moment. going to try an lm386 power amp to drive it next.
I'd be in for a pcb or spring order/group buy in a second...
boing.
Kelly

 

[khstudio]

I have (& use) a MICMIX - Master Room XL-210.
Very cool piece. I remember opening it up a while ago thinking there couldn't be much inside but there was a LOT! :shock:

 

[12afael]

a classmate that work on a inverse filter use diferent exitation waveforms to get a IR.
sometimes a pulse don`t have a flat energy distribution or that I understand. maybe there are other ways to obtain a IR more acurately(frequency sweep, white noise, etc).

 

[12afael]

I don`t know if you already have it.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~fokkie/IR.htm#Masterroom

there are a couple of impulses of the masterroom II , I`m a pc user and I don`t have altiverb but maybe another user can make a wav file for a better analisis.

 

[12afael]

is an autocorrelation analisis of the IR useful?
I can do that on matlab I think.

 

[khstudio]

Give me a little time & I'll do the test for you. Mine has EQ... I assume you want that "FLAT" ?

 

[recnsci]

[quote author="12afael"]a classmate that work on a inverse filter use diferent exitation waveforms to get a IR.
sometimes a pulse don`t have a flat energy distribution or that I understand. maybe there are other ways to obtain a IR more acurately(frequency sweep, white noise, etc).[/quote]

Swept-sine. High imunity to nonlinearity, good SNR (85dB can be expected),
poor impulse type disturbance reduction
http://pcfarina.eng.unipr.it/Public/Papers/134-AES00.PDF

cheerz
urosh

 

[Sleeper]

Mediatechnology this is really interesting stuff. I'm sooo in on one of these if you make a kit or whatever.
Even with all the great impulse stuff out there, you just can't beat a real reverb. I hope you have excellent luck with these experiments.
Kelly

 

[khstudio]

[quote author="mediatechnology"]Wow! I'm going through some old phone numbers and stumble across my boss' number at MicMix: Bill Hall - the inventor of the MasterRoom and author of the patent.

So I called after not speaking with him for 25+ years and he answers! How cool. We revisited a lot and he mentioned that he had a MasterRoom that I could borrow to pulse.

Bill's 75 now and I'm so glad that I have him to talk to and so very glad I called...He and I agreed that our time at MicMix was some of the most creative time in our lives. I'm truly blessed to know him and have worked for him.

I encouraged Bill to pay us a visit here.[/quote]

:shock: I didn't realize you worked for the actual company. That is very cool :thumb:
On another note... I have been too busy to get to the samples for you... so I'm happy to hear you are getting a REAL one to check.

I haven't used mine for a while but do like it a lot, especially the EQ-ability.
I wish I could reduce the lenth of the verb sometimes - maybe install a switch to remove a few springs or somthing, I don't know?

I'm sorry I couldn't help sooner.
Good luck.

 

[12afael]

wow Jack Kilby was a genius, I know that demostrate my ignorance.
is impressive how his inventions has modified our lives , I couldn`t be writing in this forum wihout integrated circuits.

So I called after not speaking with him for 25+ years and he answers! How cool. We revisited a lot and he mentioned that he had a MasterRoom that I could borrow to pulse.

any chance to have a IR file?

first time what I listen or read of something like using vca to control dacay of reverb, it seems very interesting. complete sidechain for reverb :shock:

 

[tablebeast]

I have one of these Master Room Spring Reverbs, but its a Super "C" Master Room. Is this one as good as the "B" or is there any real difference between them? Any chance at a schematic for the "C"? I'd like to get it up to snuff.

Jesse

 

[tablebeast]

Yeah, its a little on the noisy side, so I was thinking a recap. The tanks are in good shape I beleive, at least they look excellent on the outside. Is there any kind of test I can run to see if there is something out of whack? To be honest I haven't really had much interest in it until reading this thread. Now I'm stoked to have it set up properly and working full time in the studio.The EQ looks really unique now that I inspect it more closely. I'm guessing this is one of those magic boxes that mastering guys use to get supernatural results? Thanks for the info and a schematic would be awesome!

Jesse

 

[khstudio]

I've always liked mine but it may need a cap job too.

You are lucky to have the "C"... I've got the XL-210.

 

[eriksmusicproduction]

Not sure if anyone has seen this site but I'll post it anyway. Might be some interesiting info.

http://www.electronicpeasant.com/projects/springs/springs.html

 

[ruairioflaherty]

This thread rocks :thumb: I know I've said it before but I learn so much from threads like this. Thanks Wayne and and all who contribute.

cheers,
Ruairi

BTW I use Altiverb in Pro Tools and it has a sample from a Bossendorfer piano with the damping open. It rings for 16 seconds or so. Cool for special effects, not practical as a verb.