SSL E series tech questions

[TheBlackStuff]

Hey Folks.

I'm getting to grips with the (really) basic care of an E series 4048  (40 E channels and 8 G channels) and what I believe to be a G series master section and G+ computer.

a few questions that have been burning my mind:

1 - There are switches on the desk (mostly EQ CH, split and DYN CH) that when NOT engaged can cause the signal on that channel to fart a bit. Aside gently pulling while wiggling them till a good contact is found, is the only other option to replace them all? (one heck of a job I assume, as I'm sure many of you will know from experience)

2 - After turning off the master section to sort out the mains in the machine room:
-the MONITORS CUT and the QUAD CUTS don't work on the RIGHT FRONT anymore...
-channels 1 and 2 seem to be bleeding through to the mix bus with everything muted,
Are these 2 problems linked? They certainly occurred at the same time...
What other info would one need, to have a stab at what components have gone?

3 - How do I lift a channel for the first time? I have reasonably good DIY/soldering skills and I don't think I'm an idiot but what do i definately need to do before pulling one of these things out to swap a dyn card and a few routing button cards...?

Thanks Folks!

PS. A big thankyou to everyone on these forums who posts answers about SSL E / G stuff, especially Keith, from whose posts I've already learnt a lot.

 

[AK79]

Hi,

1: there´s no other way than replacing. This includes removing the faceplate of the channel and that includes to unscrew all of the pots. You need a special tool loosen the screws of the pots also.  Next problem is to de-solder the switches, you need serious desoldering equipment otherwise you´ll just damage the board.

2: No idea

3: The channels pop right out. A bit of force is neccesary but overall construction of the channels can cope with that. To remove the routing buttons is tough. I would says it is impossible without removing the faceplate. Swapping Dynamics is easy and self-expplaining.

Good Luck

cheers
Arne

 

[tomelectro]

You do NOT need to remove the faceplate of the channel to replace the switches.  The EQ and DYN switches are on removable cards held in by one screw.  You might have some luck cleaning them.  If they are the white, open-back type switches, then it's easy - just spray a little contact cleaner in the back and exercise.  If they are the sealed Schadow-type, you can sometimes get away with spraying a little cleaner down the shaft and exercising, or drilling a small hole in the end of the switch (careful!) to spray into.  If cleaning doesn't work, you may still be able to buy the whole switch card from someone like Recycled Audio in the UK, or maybe PAD or Desk Doctor in the US. Then it's easy - just pop in the new card.  Otherwise, replace the switches.

To replace the SPLIT switch, you will need to remove one of the filter pots from the front panel to access the switch. As mentioned, there is a special tool for removing the nuts. If you are having trouble with these switches, I bet you will discover similar problems with the insert IN and PRE switches as well.  Be careful when removing any of these switches from the motherboard. There are traces on the top and bottom of the board that rely on the through-hole plating of the switch holes to connect.  It is really easy to pull out the plating with the switch, and then you're in trouble 

Do you have a set of module pullers for pulling the channel out? If not, they are little handles that screw into the top and bottom of the channel, making it very simple to pull the channel out.  Just be careful of the bunch of ribbon cables that run across the board - they tend to snag.  Also, be sure the bucket is powered down first!

Routing cards can also be replaced without removing the faceplate, it just takes some care.  I've replaced literally thousands of these cards, and never have had to remove the module faceplate.

 

[nielsk]

On the mater section issues, start with re-seating the cards.
Of course, the 651 should be powered down before this exercise. The 651 module lifts up and (should) snap into place at service height. It does have threaded holes for the channel pullers, but I usually push it up from the bottom, and have an assistant on the top side make sure it stays parallel to the console surface and locks into place correctly. If the rails do not work properly you have your work cut out for you!
Pull each card out a bit then fully seat, you will be surprised how many times this clears up issues.
You can power it up & test it with the module up. If it is not happy, get out the extenders, scope & schematics....
Be as gentle as possible when dropping the 651 back down, there are release tabs on the rails to un-lock it
.

 

[pucho812]

yes the center section can get pretty heavy for one person to lift.  As always one should power down the bucket and or the center section before one removes any channel or card.

 

[TheBlackStuff]

You guys are legends!

Thanks for all the advice.
I do have channel pullers, And thankfully the pre and insert switches are in pretty good condition...

...and i wouldn't dream doing anything with the modules on!

I'll keep y'all posted maybe with pics when i get time to have a look.
Thanks again!

 

[pucho812]

...and i wouldn't dream doing anything with the modules on!

I would but that's only after turning off the bucket or center section, pulling the module or center section card inserting the extender card, pougging the card into the extender and then powering it back up. Sometimes you have to make adjustments that way sometimes you test that way. If you really loose your mind try fixing the osclator volume pot some day. If there is an easy way to get it, I would love to hear it.

 

[nielsk]

The osc. switch is fun too... I don't know about easy, but to work on the 651 panel I lift the entire unit out of the console (it will come right out of the rails by pressing the correct release tabs), lay it on the right hand side (put down a towel 1st), remove the allen socket screws that hold the front panel on and "hinge" it down to the right. This gives the best access I have been able to figure out

 

[pucho812]

yes but it's still not what I call easy...

 

[TheBlackStuff]

wow, ok.

so moving channels around and swapping dynamics cards is easy as pie. (eating, not cooking)
yes it also looks real easy swapping routing button cards (confirmed by Recycled Audio). one screw, can't ask for easier than that.

The switches on the channels are accessible enough for contact spray, should be fine.

and i lifted the centre section and laid it flat on its side, not too difficult either.
After having swapped the QB mix cards around I have located the dodgy ones.

Looks like a big enough job replacing all the caps on these cards... is it worth replacing the little IC's to see if that brings the cards back to life?

 

[nielsk]

No need to change any chips that are working.
On the 26 cards there are coupling caps on the mix buss inputs, these are prone to failure and should be replaced along w/ all electrolytics. There is also a mod to change the back to back polars with bi-polars.

 

[TheBlackStuff]

Thanks Nielsk but what 26 cards are you referring to? where?
I didn't count them but surely there can't be 26 in the master section....

and what does the mod do?




By the way. For all SSL parts & techs check out Recycled Audio (in UK)
friggin excellent customer sevice.
(no i don't work for them or know them personally, they've just been extremely helpful)

 

[pucho812]

not 26 cards as in 26 of them. 26 cards as in part number26....... IIRC

 

[nielsk]

When you have the 651 up, take a look at the bottom edge of the motherboard on the right hand side, you will see the card slot designations. Most are a "2X" #, starting at 20 down near the faders... as in 82EO20. The 26 cards are the Mix cards.

 

[TheBlackStuff]

UPDATE: (hope this is useful to other SSL studio owners & managers)

for the scratchy switches (pad, phase, dyn in, dyn out, eq in, in and pre)
I tried every lubricant & cleaner i had heard of.

- servisol switch cleaner
CAME OUT BEST, AS IT'S CONDUCTIVE

- WD40
DID ACTUALLY IMPROVE THINGS, DESPITE THE WARNINGS

- deoxit (red, dropper)
DID NOTHING REALLY

- maplin switch cleaner
CAUSED THE SWITCHES TO SEIZE    AFTER A PANIC PHONECALL TO MY DAD, A MICROBIOLOGIST AND T-SHIRT PRINTER, I MANAGED TO SAVE THE SWITCHES WITH WD40, WHICH REMOVED THE MAPLIN SWITCH CLEANER FROM THE APPARENTLY POROUS SSL PLASTIC (WHICH CAUSED THE SWITCHES TO SWELL)

The ONLY real solution for me has been to leave the desk permanently on, the heat of which keeps the switch contacts good.

There's my experience anyway.
Although WD40 didn't cause any problems (like the ones i read up on) and it actually came to my rescue when the MAPLIN SWITCH CLEANER jammed the switches, I wouldn't ignore the warnings you'll see on various pro audio forums.

 

[TheBlackStuff]

I like to mix OTB (because i can hear the difference)... then bounce stems back into pro tools for a very basic level of mix changes if needed...


1 - When I'm bouncing stems back into pro tools and I go to use a pan pot in the routing section, the level drops considerably, even when panning centre. Is this normal? Is it supposed to happen? It makes "replicating pan settings in pro tools" impossible. For now I'm panning in tools BEFORE the desk, using only full left, centre or full right panning ON the desk, and avoiding the routing pans altogether. Is there a way round this so I can use the routing pans WITHOUT the level drop compared to the channels that are going "direct"?

2 - How can I make use of the back buss of my quad SSL for mixing to stereo? (would like to sum the 2 stereo busses analogue and then into pro tools)

3 - I can't find the listen mic or listen mic compressor anywhere on the patchbay. how can i access these?

4 - how can I access the M.D. (musical director) output feed?

5 - how can I have a talkback button that records to slate? the OMNI button cuts EVERYTHING.

6 - just out of interest, how many folks are still using the G+ computers for most sessions?

Thanks folks!

 

[sintech]

No need to change any chips that are working.
On the 26 cards there are coupling caps on the mix buss inputs, these are prone to failure and should be replaced along w/ all electrolytics. There is also a mod to change the back to back polars with bi-polars.

Hi Nielsk, would you have details of the 26 card mod handy? and what are the advantages?

Running with freshly re-capped 26 and 27 cards, should I just let be?

Does anyone know the value of the Electrolytic in the Master Fader circuit? this is marked on the schematic as 'C1 on 651 mother'

Made a point to point 'cut down' 651 backplane for my 4K mini mixer, so don't have a 651 handy If I go large, I get lag on the master fader, so I'm assuming it's smallish, but don't understand why they didn't put it on the 27 card.

Thanks, Andy

 

[sodderboy]

I do NOT recommend use WD40 for cleaning switches because it is petroleum based and likes to eat plastics as it off-gasses.  You will slowly damage LED's, switchboots, some connectors, and plastic display covers over time.  I have fixed the damage caused by "good cleaning" years after.  I have found that WD40 does more damage than good in most situations.  It is a very specific lubricant that gets used inappropriately everywhere.

I do not like conductive switch conditioners as they like to conduct where they shouldn't.  It is usually because it is applied too heavily, but I just stay away.  It wreaks havok on vintage EQ rotary switches.

The Caig "red" mentioned is a cleaner, which following Caigs docs, needs to be flushed and follower with a conditioner.  Bad switches get replaced.  It is the only reliable long-term solution.

I always flushed the isostats and followed with a conditioner like ProGold or Electrolube EML.  Ultrasonic "dipping" bus cards or complete modules in cleaner and then conditioning them really makes an improvement in all the switches (not the AUX because you don't dip pots!) but it is Rogaine for SSL's.  You will need to dip every year or so because the switches get really noisy really fast again.
Mike

 

[nielsk]

On the 26 card, the "back to backs" as in C3&4  get changed to 100uF NP, and C9 to a 220uF NP. Stiffens up the low end, reduces smear... C1 couples the sub contra nano level lost in the black hole mix buss, so you want it as good as possible.
Use the best parts you can get here, this is the whole enchilada...