ssm2019 Opinions?

[Svart]

I'm about to mod some channels with these but don't have any "good" pres to compare them to and have not heard them before. any opinions as to what I should expect to hear?

 

[SSLtech]

If it's anything like the 2017 (a fave of Kev's) then they're probably okay, but don't ask them to drive heavy loads, they lose current drive for longer wavelengths at higher excursions, leaving the impression of a definate lack of bass. -If you follow them with a decent current-capable stage you might avoid this sort of problem.

-I think that some manufacturers of cheaper gear with 2017's in might have gone straight from the 2017 output to an insert send... as soon as you stick that into a 600Ωload and get some level going, you've got a limp, thin, irritating sound, and that's what got the 2017 part of it's bad rap.

YMMV of course.

Keith

 

[Svart]

thanks Keith! i'll be sure to check that. I'm going to bypass a pair of pres in my line cards and try these instead. I don't see that there will be much of a problem with loading at the point where i'll be inserting them into the audio path but I'll be sure to post what i find. I already have +-15v, and I'll just parallel the pre stages through some switches so i can A/B them.

 

[jensenmann]

Hi there
I realiced this lack of lowend that Keith mentioned some years ago doing a recording on a TAC Scorpion I with small monitors ( with built-in SSM2017 Pres). When I crosschecked it later in a studio with a large monitoring system it became obvious that the bottom is missing. In livemixing this lack never turned out, maybe in fact of using an EQ in masterinsert. But nevertheless was the soundcharacteristic of the Scorpion longtime my first choice because of its clean, natural sound (which maybe comes out of the pres). And this was the opinion of lots of other live-engineers, so I´m wondering why Keith is talking about a bad reputation. Maybe I´m too much in live-business and my ear are ruined (they are, I already know)

 

[Svart]

clean/clear is rather what i'm looking for. my pres now are chunky and thick sounding with an almost un-managable amount of lower frequencies(my EQs are frequently tuned to the lower frequencies and turn down many dB so this may be something interesting for me.)

 

[SSLtech]

Well who knows... I'm reporting a combination of many people's complaints that the sound was 'thin' with 2017s, yet others have much less of a problem. I suspect much of it was due to the application... in live monitor applications there might possibly be less of an obligation to push the channels quite as hard as in the studio ('hot' levels to tape on most channels...)

I suspect that one manufacturer's application might be worse than another. On Scenaria's previous trident board, the mic pres were 2017s and the summing was on 2016's if I recall correctly. That board had a really hard time when you pushed it, the low end was thin and the top got brittle. If the output is struggling to supply current then the distortion-cancelling feedback margin also takes a hike... I think that these were major contributing factors to how bad that trident sounded if you tried to do 'rock-n-roll' through it. -At quiet levels on gentler program material however, it really didn't sound all that bad... but a rock'n'roll board it most certainly was not!

A number of people have expressed strong dislikes for the 2017... myself I think it can be usable (and is certainly convenient) so long as you don;t tax it too heavily. If your taste is for APIs which have almost enough current drive capability to run an air conditioner :wink: and you like to push them hard and ruin them hot, then you probably won't like the 2017. If you run it into something a little more capable (like the humble 5534) and you don't want to drive it into a load that looks like a lightbulb, you'll probably get along just fine!

Keith

 

[mcs]

I have only used them (or rather the 2015s) into unbalanced line inputs. And in that application they worked fine. I still haven't tested the 2019 samples I have somewhere...

Best regards,

Mikkel C. Simonsen

 

[Kev]

... speaking of balanced line inputs

I've been meaning to pass this on for a while now BUT keep forgetting !!

THAT Corp
We have some samples of the 1240 series balanced line receivers

THAT 1240 0dB = ssm2140 and ina134
THAT 1243
THAT 1246 +/-6dB = ssm2143 and ina137

cmrr 90dB
thd 0.0006%
slew rate 12V/us
gain bandwidth product 20MHz


at last something new from THAT
and just when you had thought they had gone to sleep !!
:thumb:



... by the way I have always followed the 2017 with an LM833 ... then on to an ssm2142.

 

[12afael]

what about the ina103?
"The INA103's wide supply voltage(+-9 to +-25V) and high output current drive allow its use in high level audio stages as well ..."


R.

 

[Bluzzi]

mcs - you say you have 2019. Are they surface mount? Just asking because when I looked at the spec sheets it seemed only available in surface mount version. Is that still correct?

jim

 

[mcs]

No, the ones I have are DIL. According to the website they are still available as DIL: http://www.analog.com/en/prod/0%2C2877%2CSSM2019%2C00.html#price

Best regards,

Mikkel C. Simonsen

 

[Svart]

i got mine in soic8. also had little soic prototype boards too though. makes it a lot easier/smaller for me.

Thanks SSLTech, Opinion is exactly what I wanted, good and/or bad! I also thought that maybe certain applications of this IC weren't ideal and caused the chip to not work up to par. From the design, I would expect fairly good sound, maybe not the best, but maybe better than most crap out there. Of course there is too much other attributes to the sound of these boards than just one preamp chip so I do take any/all opinions with a grain of salt. some lemons and a whole lot of tequila... :green:

Kev, thanks for the info! I haven't done much more than get the 2019 mounted and hooked up to power and gain controls. Do you use the lm833 in unity gain just to drive the output or do you set it to a certain gain for any specific reason. I suppose I'll find this out when i get it mounted on the channel and do some measurements, just wondering what I might need to look out for. also, any reason to use the 833 and not combinations of other devices? just wondering if you knew something we don't.. :green:


thanks

:thumb:

 

[Bluzzi]

Thanks scs,

I've kept the page. I was looking to replace my SSM2016 in my Magnum console. The specs on both are very close (SSM2016 is of course out of production) in spec but not close enough to replace all preamps. But I will need some spares so SSM2019 would be OK.

Jim

 

[Kev]

[quote author="Svart"]... Do you use the lm833 in unity gain just to drive the output or do you set it to a certain gain for any specific reason.
... also, any reason to use the 833 and not combinations of other devices? [/quote]

I think I usually dial in just a little gain on the 833. Gives the overall unit more total gain.
The opamp post 2017/2019 is used as a buffer to correctly drive the SSM2142. The LM833 is a dual opamp and one of my favs ... so I used the other side as an unbalanced output to drive other circuits and experiment with.
Having done this I just decided it was better to always follow the 2017 with the opamp regardless.

There is always something to use the 833 as ... HP filter ... send for other circuits like summing junctions ... simple unbalanced output.



The 2016 is not the same as the 2017 and 2019 so if you need to replace 2016's it might be easier to obtain OLD stock.
We stock piled many when we saw they were being discontinued. Our Euphonics Desks use them so wee needed spares.

 

[SSLtech]

[quote author="Kev"]The 2016 is not the same as the 2017 and 2019[/quote]
Word.

I most commonly see the 2016 used as summing stages, the 2017 (and 2019) is for input stages.

Keith

 

[Bluzzi]

So are you saying the 2019 is not a valid replacement for a 2016? It sused in the mike preamp in my Magnum mixer. National gave the 2017 as a replacement and then the 2019 replaces the 2017 so I figured 2019 can replace 2016.

Jim

 

[Svart]

thanks Kev, exactly what i needed to know.

:guinness:
cheers!

 

[henk]

The 2019 sound like a Yamaha PM3500 , on paper it is a very good table and will do the sound for a studio but don't try it for live because than it has not the headroom and balls you wish to have for the sound you want to give the public.

Further it will do stangs things when it goes to distorsion , it sounds like 2nd harmonic but don't know that for sure , if you would try a Soundcraft 800/8000 or so that will give you not that kind of distorsion.

Therefore i do not like the ssm2017 and the newer 2019.

 

[peterc]

Going back to the 2017, I've used them daily in various units including D&R Merlin, Soundtracs Virtua, Symetrix Voice Channel (528E?) & my own design from the datasheet & they all had a similar signature to them.

I found them very hard in the 4k - 7k area, almost distorting. I must add that my hearing is very sensitive in that area. My own 2017 pre had a beefy 5532 balancing stage after it, all the caps were good quality.

Not my favourite, but YMMV.

Peter

 

[Svart]

in another post I mentioned that i installed the 2019 proto in a channel, replacing a 2n4403/5532 preamp similar to the green pre and it sounded fairly good. not as much gain as the stock preamps but pretty usable. it HAS to drive low impedence. I tried it into a BJT input opamp and it didn't sound as wonderful as i had expected. changed that to a FET input(opa404) and it sounded much better. it definately has to have some kind of gain stage on the output, preferably FET input.

I used it on snare and it sounded fairly clean and stable at high input levels, however I need to do more testing.

:thumb: