The effect of magnet wire size on a guitar pickup

[ubxf]

Most guitar pickup use 42 AWG coil wire. Would there be a big difference of sound if 38 or 39 AWG wire was used and the same amount of turns were applied.
Also if you use 44 AWG do you keep the same amount of turns or do you overwind ? What is the difference of sound.

 

[Tubetec]

You'll probably end up caught for space trying to fit the same number of turns of thicker wire on the bobbin , the finer gauge wire is more likely to break during winding .
The reason for using the the thinner wire is to get a pickup with more turns and higher output .

 

[gyraf]

..thinner wire gives proportionally less stray-capacitance-per-turn when scatterwinding, resulting in higher self-resonance point (or higher output level at the same resonance point)

 

[ubxf]

Thank you guys, if I were to use a larger bobbin and space wasn't restricted would the thicker be a viable option . If I use less turns would it sound similar but with a weak output that could be compensated with an active preamp ?

 

[metalockpick]

Inductance, resistance and capacitance and the interaction among those change when you alter any variable.
What's your goal?
More output? Greater bandwidth? A particular resonant peak?
There's more than one way to skin a cat...

 

[ubxf]

I don't really have a specific goal. I just have a couple of spools of thicker wire and wanted to get a sense if it's a complete waste of time and effort to wind a pickup with it. I'm still going to wind one at least and I'm appreciating all the feedback so I know better what to listen for.

 

[Tubetec]

Certain types of active pickup use lower resistance coils in various humbucking configurations ,
Depends on the sound your after , do you want vintage or modern ? 59 LP style or EMG
What style of guitar do you need it fitted into ? if you want to fit non standard pickups your guitar body is likely to need routing and the pick guard refitted
Ive found the most pleasing tones come from a decent quality passive pickup directly into a tube amp through a short cable , any time domain effects fed from a sidechain and returned as wet only signal to channels in the HD recorder , no mixing of wet dry in the amp , that all happens at the mixing board in parralel with the source .

And yeah as Metal said , theres isnt one right way to do it , depends what your after .

 

[ubxf]

That's my first attempt at winding a pickup so I'm very far of the subtlety of vintage of modern. I'm just hoping to make a reasonably decent working pickup. I just put a Nordstrand bridge pickup into a P-Bass so I learned how to rout a pickup cavity.

 

[metalockpick]

Wind that sucker.
Preamps and pedals today have more gain than anyone knows what to do with. Most high output passive pickups don't cut and are generally awful.
Lower winds mean lower output, but with greater clean bandwidth on both ends.
Bigger wire means lower resistance/less loss and far less chance of breakage.
Once you wind it and test it on an instrument, you can compare it to similar units. After that, you can make changes. Do it enough and you'll get good at it.

 

[KLDVOX]

i build my own pu's. for anything worth having you want to use 42 to 44 awg the really nasty cheap pu's from the 60's tended to use 40awg wire and cheap ceramic magnets. the magnet chosen also makes a big differance, the manet strength weakest to strongest is alnico (A)
A4, A3, A2, A5, A6, A7, ceramic8.
A2&4 are the type most ofen used on early les pauls, A5 is the most frequently used on decent guitars now. A6 will give a ponounced bass. A7 is good for semi acoustics if you are after a more acousic balance. ceramic8 will give you a more agresive sound with lots of power. i dont like neodinium as it makes a shrill sounding pu.

the number of turns affects the tone and output power, lots of winds acts like a choke and limits top end response but lots of winds gives more volume

single coil pu's "early fender" used A3 but mostly A5 now.

theres a bit of hype on pu building.
mostly its trial and error till you find something you like. if you inend on wax potting test the pu before potting it up. to make the wax a low melt wax add a little peroleum jelly ( vaseline to the wax ) a nice poting wax can be made from candle wax with some vaseline and pine resin, this is very much like the soft brown potting wax from the early elctronic days

 

[KLDVOX]

thats a lot of blurb but i can talk guitars allday

 

[ubxf]

Thank you, I'm going to go for it. My last thing to do is make a turn counter before I actually wind a pickup.

 

[KLDVOX]

for a turns counter go to ebay or similar and search for "digital counter for knitting machine" about £7 they work from a couple of AA batteries. for my one i drilled a hole in my pu bobbin mounting bit and pushed a small magnet in the hole.

cheap and cheerfull.

for my drive i used a 12v drill motor and a cheap switch mode power supply. if you want some ideas on building the machine have a look on youtube but keep it as simple as you can.

 

[ubxf]

great thank you, I was about to do the calculator hack but your solution seems better

 

[CJ]

Don't worry about the turns , just wind as much wire as you can get on there.

The fun part about this sport is to try different combinations to see what they sound like.

My treble pu on my sg went out the night before a show. All I had was 44 instead of 42. I stuck the same amount of turns on there and it sounds great.

I did not dip the coils so every 1000 turns I wrapped a thin layer of mylar tape to keep the wires from vibrating and breaking. This also helps to cut down on bad capacitance.
DCR went up a bit. I wish I had one of those graphers for checking Q so I could see the difference in the wire.

You can find DCR specs online for your favorite player and thus estimate turns of their pickups. I went for the Billy Gibbons specs which turned out to be 4431 turns and 4780 turns (humbucker). Some people say that mismatched coils sound better. You can overwind the coils, check DCR. Then gradually pull off turns to get desired dcr.


I bet there are specs for Jaco, Jamerson but I have not searched. Barry Oakley had a Hagstrom Biosonic pickup spliced onto to his jazz bass which came out of his Guild Starfire who used Hagstrom pickups for some strange reason.

Your biggest hassle will be to get your bobbin to spin in a perfect circle so you do not hang up on the former.

You can use heavier magnet wire for your lead breakouts, I used 34 spliced onto the 44. Tape the start wire splice on the former, you do not want to have a piece of thin wire moving around too much otherwise you end up with a broken or stresses lead. Have fun!

OT there is a schematic for Versatone Portaflex bass amp around here. This rare amp was used by Carol Kaye and Jack Cassidy and features a 12 and 8 inch speaker setup with two separate amps to drive each.

We just got a vintage Sunn Model T in the shop with 6 12's that I get to work on man I love working at the shop!

 

[KLDVOX]

ive never even thought of using any tape other than paper or cloth on the first and final layers but interleaving every 1000 turns would certainly help keep things even

 

[CJ]

the tape also compresses the coil a bit so you can get on more turns.

just don't try to remove it once it is on there.

tape on the cheap- 1/4 inch works for standard humbuckers>

https://www.ebay.com/str/garstore?_trksid=p4429486.m145687.l149086

 

[dmp]

You can find DCR specs online for your favorite player and thus estimate turns of their pickups.

Cool - where do you find this?

Some people say that mismatched coils sound better.

Do they noticeably lose hum rejection or doesn't it matter? I've seen its usually only a <5% mismatch though.

I'm about to dust off the winder to make some PAF inspired humbuckers. I just bought a '95 LP standard and they dipped them in that era.
Was thinking of just filling the bobbin to about 5000 turns with #42?
I've liked Alnico II magnets in the past (for P90s)
Also mojotone has been out of there kits for awhile - anywhere else to get the parts?

 

[KLDVOX]

the info i have close to hand i only copied it from the web but i cant tell you what sites it came from





hope thats of some use to you

 

[rock soderstrom]

Good infoAny info available for Fender Tele and Jazzmaster pickups?